Our daughter will be going into her senior year at high
school. She’s determined to be a software engineer and has checked out a few
schools in California.
Yesterday we looked at Microsoft’s and Google’s employment sites and watched some
videos. We searched for software engineers at Microsoft and Google on LinkedIn
and checked out their profiles. We also looked at Heather Hamilton’s blog One Louder. Our main question is
what is the best degree to get to pursue a career in software engineering? A BSCS
seems to lead the pack but perhaps there are other choices? Also, what are the
best U.S.
based schools for software engineering? I figure that there are tons of
recruiters here on ere that place software engineers and that you will know the
most sort after degrees and schools. Thanks in advance for your comments.
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comments
I place SE's and am happy to offer advice.
posted 6/10/2008 at 6:07 a.m. PT by Stephanie McDonald
Hi Simon! I'm thrilled to hear your daughter is interested in becoming and SE. There are not enough women engineers out there! She's going to be highly recruited if she keeps her grades up and gets herself thru a good program.
As far as degree, my company (commercial software development) really likes to see the BSCS degrees. Second choice is the BSCE, but that is a blend of software and hardware, which is not ideal for us. As for schools, we are an east coast firm, so we tend to recruit from those schools. We really like Rochester Institute of Technology in Rochester, NY (not warm or pretty, but a great program) because they really focus on co-ops and the students come out with much more experience in the real world than most. We also like the Carnigie Mellon program. Strong curriculum and the students are very highly sought after. There is a list of the top technology programs out there and that might be helpful as well. As far as her long term goals, I hope she would look at other shops besides giants like Microsoft and Google. But that's another post! I wish her (and you as her DAD!) the best of luck and please feel free to reach out directly if you have other questions. Stephanie
Reply to I place SE's and am happy to offer advice.
posted 6/10/2008 at 3:19 p.m. PT by Simon Meth
Hi Stephanie,
Thanks for the great comments. Much appreciated! I think that our daughter will be open to smaller companies that Google and Microsoft but with 5 more years of study ahead of her that's something that will likely change. Who knows where the software industry will be in 2013?
Thanks again,
Simon
Reality check
posted 6/11/2008 at 9:08 a.m. PT by Steven Levy
Through the years I've hired developers with GPAs so low you'd wonder how they ever made it through school; I've hired developers with PhD's the School of Hard Knocks; I've hired kids out of high school who never gave thoughts to higher education. Above all, I've hired people as developers with the same range of degrees as found in a college catalog.
Help her discover her passion - if it's technology, encourage her to study math, philosophy, music, etc. but incorporate computer science wrappers. And above all, just start coding somewhere. Wherever she goes, there'll be s/w companies where she can volunteer, intern, co-op, etc. Since most schools tend to focus on the same languages (like Java) she'll have to do lots on her own to learn some of the lesser "known" languages like Perl.
I've college recruited at over 100 schools over the years and all have their up and down students. Schools are like ATS' - everyone has differing opinions.
Above all, get to know the places where developers hang - goto slashdot; check out dzone.com; check out coderific.com where developers rate companies (lol)...
Ask questions on Google comp forums.
Jeez Simon, this could go on and on...
Reply to Reality check
posted 6/11/2008 at 10:48 a.m. PT by Simon Meth
Hi Steve,
Thank you for your comment and call. Thanks also for the referral to http://sddotnetdg.org/ and for the suggestion to download an open source development environment and to start coding. Much appreciated!
Simon
Other thoughts I received by email...
posted 6/16/2008 at 5:55 p.m. PT by Simon Meth
Morning, Simon...
The two mainstream degree paths are "computer science" and "software engineering", and the various aliases for those terms. It used to be pretty much true that the computer science degree concentrated on theoretical understanding, and the software engineering on practical application -- analogous to "theoretical mathematician" vs. "applied mathematician". But these days those distinctions are getting blurred from both sides: the CS guys are getting more applied training, and the SE guys are getting more on the theoretical side; it varies a lot from school-to-school and year-to-year.
In my personal experience, a CS education (in the traditional sense) combined with real-life practical projects (whether as an intern, as a hobbyist, or as labs) is the best combination. So, for instance, a CS education at a good school combined with demonstrated hands-on capability through a hobby web site would make a great presentation from a potential new hire. Not too long ago I interviewed a guy with a MS from Carnegie Mellon who had build a web site that let you design your own sailboat -- that combination was very impressive...
In all cases, the more experience you can show (whether it's as an employee or not), the better...
Another thing that's great these days: fluency in a language where a lot of outsourcing is done (especially Chinese or Russian).
Software Engineering as a discipline
posted 6/24/2008 at 5:09 p.m. PT by Kristen Fife
As a recruiter at Microsoft, the best thing I can tell her is that if she is truly interested in Software Engineering as a discipline, she needs a strong grounding in mathematical disciplines. Specifically for becoming a SE, the best foundation is Computer Science. Other alternatives are Electrical Engineering, Math, or Physics. Counsel her that Information Sciences/Technology are *not* technical enough for software engineering unless coupled with one of the hard science disciplines. I would also recommend that she talk to her guidance counselor or a career counselor (yes, they exist at the HS level) about the best schools for her. Much as I hate to say it, the school does count with many companies. Some of the best repuations for CS (in no particular order) are Carnegie Mellon, Rice University, MIT, Stanford, Waterloo (in Canada), University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, Berkeley, Georgia Tech, SUNY Stonybrook, Cal Tech, University of Washington, Princeton. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but these are among the agreed-upon best schools that consistently rank highest with software companies.
She should also seriously consider pursuing internships/Co-ops, and getting involved with Women in Technology groups such as Grace Hoppers (http://gracehopper.org/2008/). Female CS grads are highly sought after, and a good school combined with decent grades (3.5+) and an internship or two will pretty much get her a job on *her* terms. A MS or PhD will take her further, depending on what she enjoys doing.
Reply to Software Engineering as a discipline...
posted 6/25/2008 at 5:31 a.m. PT by Simon Meth
Hi Kristen,
Sure do appreciate your comments.
Thanks,
Simon
Computer Science degree gives the most options
posted 7/6/2008 at 4:55 p.m. PT by Pam Claughton
I place software engineers and agree with Kristen. To go a step further, I've had multiple clients refuse to consider candidates who did not have computer science degrees...computer engineering was not considered close enough. The reason I was given is that computer science teaches students how to approach solving a problem and in many cases they are tested on this during the interview process...they are given problems to solve on whiteboards so that they can show their thought process.
Also agree that in addition to the CS degree, hands on experience gives a signficant edge. I've seen both internships and independent projects give entry-level candidates an edge when interviewing.
Reply to Computer Science degree gives the most options
posted 7/6/2008 at 5:01 p.m. PT by Simon Meth
Hi Pam,
So it seems that a CS is the right degree for a budding software engineer. What do people with CE degrees do?
Thanks,
Simon
CE degree
posted 7/8/2008 at 5:57 a.m. PT by Pam Claughton
Simon,
Some go on to be software developers/engineers with the CE degree, some go into more IT/networking. The CS degree just seems to be preferred by hiring managers.
~Pam
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