Comments on: Does Our Own Mindset Cause the Talent Shortage? http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/ Recruiting News, Recruiting Events, Recruiting Community, Social Recruiting Tue, 14 Feb 2012 01:03:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Is there really a worldwide talent shortage? http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-24954 Is there really a worldwide talent shortage? Thu, 27 May 2010 14:37:41 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-24954 [...] However, some believe that the whole idea of the talent shortfall is a myth. Kevin Wheeler of the recruiting site ere.net writes: [...] [...] However, some believe that the whole idea of the talent shortfall is a myth. Kevin Wheeler of the recruiting site ere.net writes: [...]

]]> By: Leanne HoaglandSmith http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-19136 Leanne HoaglandSmith Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:18:17 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-19136 Possibly there is an inherent (subconscious) belief system within the U.S. about independence and personal responsibility since meritocracy has strong ties to the founding of the U.S. Hence employers may believe you as the employee must secure your own training. Not justifying the behavior; attempting to understand why the reluctance to invest in people. Also much of the T&D including at the university level have failed to deliver positive ROI which is not only the fault of the businesses, but those who deliver unsustainable training. Possibly there is an inherent (subconscious) belief system within the U.S. about independence and personal responsibility since meritocracy has strong ties to the founding of the U.S. Hence employers may believe you as the employee must secure your own training. Not justifying the behavior; attempting to understand why the reluctance to invest in people. Also much of the T&D including at the university level have failed to deliver positive ROI which is not only the fault of the businesses, but those who deliver unsustainable training.

]]> By: Ben Hayes http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-19127 Ben Hayes Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:14:56 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-19127 India has succeeded in business including IT by offering intense training. Few westerners have the motivation seen in Indian and the universities and training schools are out of touch with global and local demands. India has succeeded in business including IT by offering intense training. Few westerners have the motivation seen
in Indian and the universities and training schools are out of touch with global and local demands.

]]> By: Muzaffer Karasulu http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18565 Muzaffer Karasulu Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:40:56 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18565 To Leanne: I like your latest assessment and the Gallup numbers. Here is my five cent, which I always save till end but you are lucky today. If we really want to solve the problem which business sometimes don't like to do that I would go after the Gallup numbers and question them why? Why on earth the best country on earth would have this outcome? Why 55% of all employees are unhappy? Without finding the answers of those questions we should not attempt to introduce another bunch of unhappy to bees in to the system.With my best regards, MK To Leanne: I like your latest assessment and the Gallup numbers. Here is my five cent, which I always save till end but you are lucky today. If we really want to solve the problem which business sometimes don’t like to do that I would go after the Gallup numbers and question them why? Why on earth the best country on earth would have this outcome? Why 55% of all employees are unhappy? Without finding the answers of those questions we should not attempt to introduce another bunch of unhappy to bees in to the system.With my best regards, MK

]]> By: Leanne HoaglandSmith http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18547 Leanne HoaglandSmith Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:58:15 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18547 Keith - Partnerships are great ideas. What I have observed is that institutions of higher learning become involved along with many not for profits. Many of these folks have "ivory tower" mentality and truly are clueless about the real business world. Also, Gallup just released their poll on employee engagement. 31% are actively engaged; 58% are disengaged and 22% are actively disengaged. Couple this with the survey by the Conference Board that suggests 55% of all employees are unhappy suggests businesses have an uphill battle ahead of them. Add the retiring baby boomers, the rapid evolution of technology specific to careers and this is a potentially wide open world for those who truly wish to be the cream of the crop. Keith – Partnerships are great ideas. What I have observed is that institutions of higher learning become involved along with many not for profits. Many of these folks have “ivory tower” mentality and truly are clueless about the real business world.

Also, Gallup just released their poll on employee engagement. 31% are actively engaged; 58% are disengaged and 22% are actively disengaged. Couple this with the survey by the Conference Board that suggests 55% of all employees are unhappy suggests businesses have an uphill battle ahead of them. Add the retiring baby boomers, the rapid evolution of technology specific to careers and this is a potentially wide open world for those who truly wish to be the cream of the crop.

]]> By: Keith Halperin http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18541 Keith Halperin Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:12:11 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18541 Hi Folks, I've been hearing this discussed since the '80's. (I generalize with the following statements...) 1) Employers won't pay for training for people that might help their competition. 2) If employees are secure and safe in their jobs, there don't appear to be advantages (financial, promotional. etc.) to retraining or it isn't employer $upported), they won't do it. If they aren't secure, it's probably too late. 3) Economics and ageism: It's perceived (may actually be true) that it's cheaper to outsource/insource new, younger workers than to hire older retrained ones. My solution: create a partnership with business, labor, and government to work out what types of skills are needed and how to provide workers with short, medium, long term retraining, and find out what would be required as incentives for hiring substantial numbers of these retrainees. You may say: "Business doesn't need incentives to hire retained workers. The free talent market will decide, and the retrained 'warriors of talent' shall emerge triumphant!" You believe that, and I've got a nice International Orange bridge for you to buy.... Your thoughts.... -Keith Hi Folks,

I’ve been hearing this discussed since the ’80′s.
(I generalize with the following statements…)
1) Employers won’t pay for training for people that might help their competition.
2) If employees are secure and safe in their jobs, there don’t appear to be advantages (financial, promotional. etc.) to retraining or it isn’t employer $upported), they
won’t do it. If they aren’t secure, it’s probably too late.
3) Economics and ageism: It’s perceived (may actually be true) that it’s cheaper to outsource/insource new, younger workers than to hire older retrained ones.

My solution: create a partnership with business, labor, and government to work out what types of skills are needed and how to provide workers with short, medium, long term retraining, and find out what would be required as incentives for hiring substantial numbers of these retrainees. You may say: “Business doesn’t need incentives to hire retained workers. The free talent market will decide, and the retrained ‘warriors of talent’ shall emerge triumphant!” You believe that, and I’ve got a nice International Orange bridge for you to buy….

Your thoughts….

-Keith

]]> By: Leanne HoaglandSmith http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18528 Leanne HoaglandSmith Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:38:31 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18528 Muzaffer - You may be older than me. Wisdom for me is learning from the mistakes of others and knowledge is learning from my own mistakes. (I learned this from one of my coaches.) What you are potentially suggesting is a lack of organizational development where the strategy for removal of excess capacity is not in alignment with structure, processes, rewards or people. (J. Galbraith 5 point star model) Muzaffer – You may be older than me. Wisdom for me is learning from the mistakes of others and knowledge is learning from my own mistakes. (I learned this from one of my coaches.) What you are potentially suggesting is a lack of organizational development where the strategy for removal of excess capacity is not in alignment with structure, processes, rewards or people. (J. Galbraith 5 point star model)

]]> By: Muzaffer Karasulu http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18527 Muzaffer Karasulu Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:51:43 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18527 I am probably older than you Leanne. If age gives us wisdom I'll take it. Yes, we were talking about the "mindset", I have no objection of spending money to develop those skills needed by the organizations. I am a firm believer that you can even become a virtuoso in violin and go to Carnegie Hall. Don't ask me how? As they say; practice, practice, and practice. But what I am emphasizing is that those CEO's who are ready to get rid of their excess capacities should think twice when they are firing the violinists. They shouldn't throw the baby Wagner with the bath water. We are of course talking about "TALENT" not a skilled person. Even if we have the right mindset we cannot develop them from nothing. That is all. I am probably older than you Leanne. If age gives us wisdom I’ll take it. Yes, we were talking about the “mindset”, I have no objection of spending money to develop those skills needed by the organizations. I am a firm believer that you can even become a virtuoso in violin and go to Carnegie Hall. Don’t ask me how? As they say; practice, practice, and practice. But what I am emphasizing is that those CEO’s who are ready to get rid of their excess capacities should think twice when they are firing the violinists. They shouldn’t throw the baby Wagner with the bath water. We are of course talking about “TALENT” not a skilled person. Even if we have the right mindset we cannot develop them from nothing. That is all.

]]> By: Leanne HoaglandSmith http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18525 Leanne HoaglandSmith Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:37:20 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18525 Muzaffer - I am somewhat confused possibly because I am old. TKevin in the column talked about the overall mindset and what you wrote was very much in alignment with mindset. Yes the CEO may pick up fruits with a little training and much of that fruit will turn rotten because it has not been properly developed (think cared for). This is a mindset. You are right there are skill sets you cannot secure from Ivy League schools and those skills are called soft, people or interpersonal. Again, this is a mindset to invest the money in developing these skills. Actually locally here in the Chicagoland area, there are for hire money managers - CFO - because some organizations do not require a full time CFO. Muzaffer – I am somewhat confused possibly because I am old. TKevin in the column talked about the overall mindset and what you wrote was very much in alignment with mindset. Yes the CEO may pick up fruits with a little training and much of that fruit will turn rotten because it has not been properly developed (think cared for). This is a mindset.

You are right there are skill sets you cannot secure from Ivy League schools and those skills are called soft, people or interpersonal. Again, this is a mindset to invest the money in developing these skills.

Actually locally here in the Chicagoland area, there are for hire money managers – CFO – because some organizations do not require a full time CFO.

]]> By: Muzaffer Karasulu http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18524 Muzaffer Karasulu Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:12:45 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18524 I respectfully disagree with your assessment of "Myth on Talent shortage" piece which only serves well for the training and PR organizations. Of course, there are some no talent or any distinguished qualification required jobs that anyone can perform, such as picking up fruits and vegetables, you may be right on that line. Your CEO can even pick up fruits by a little training. But how can you iterate the same argument for a nuclear engineer who does a core follow up work for your nuclear power plant which by the way is unique design itself? There are certain jobs that requires years of hands on experience, I did not say training, and skill sets that you can't even get with a Ph.D. degree from an ivy league schools even if you can effort it. We cannot generalize your argument on every existing talent shortages in our society. One thing we do not have shortage is the money managers, if we look at around us. Can you ever see or heard of outsourcing of the money-manager positions? I respectfully disagree with your assessment of “Myth on Talent shortage” piece which only serves well for the training and PR organizations. Of course, there are some no talent or any distinguished qualification required jobs that anyone can perform, such as picking up fruits and vegetables, you may be right on that line. Your CEO can even pick up fruits by a little training. But how can you iterate the same argument for a nuclear engineer who does a core follow up work for your nuclear power plant which by the way is unique design itself? There are certain jobs that requires years of hands on experience, I did not say training, and skill sets that you can’t even get with a Ph.D. degree from an ivy league schools even if you can effort it. We cannot generalize your argument on every existing talent shortages in our society. One thing we do not have shortage is the money managers, if we look at around us. Can you ever see or heard of outsourcing of the money-manager positions?

]]> By: Brian Kevin Johnston http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18504 Brian Kevin Johnston Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:26:42 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18504 Leanne- VERY insightful comment about K-16, and I agree with you 100%. Everbody "get's a trophy" and "nobody keeps a score card" in youth sports/schools, and guess what happens to all those kids who went through our public school system, and enter corporate amercia? They realize infact life is not fair, there are no shortcuts/handouts, and good things happen eventually "laying one brick at a time". "Entitlement" is destroying our culture in America... Best, brian- Leanne- VERY insightful comment about K-16, and I agree with you 100%. Everbody “get’s a trophy” and “nobody keeps a score card” in youth sports/schools, and guess what happens to all those kids who went through our public school system, and enter corporate amercia? They realize infact life is not fair, there are no shortcuts/handouts, and good things happen eventually “laying one brick at a time”.

“Entitlement” is destroying our culture in America…

Best, brian-

]]> By: Leanne HoaglandSmith http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18503 Leanne HoaglandSmith Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:18:37 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18503 Still find it interesting in that training is used for development and vice versa. This confusion is part of the problem. Personally responsibility is paramount, but that is not taught in the K-16 experience. Insightful remarks by all. Finally, when businesses place the same value on their human capital than they do their operations (COO), finances (CFO), information (CIO) etc. by having a Chief People Officer(CPO) at the executive table then maybe the talent shortage and the performance issues will truly have the same value at the 30,000 ft. viewpoint. Still find it interesting in that training is used for development and vice versa. This confusion is part of the problem.

Personally responsibility is paramount, but that is not taught in the K-16 experience.

Insightful remarks by all.

Finally, when businesses place the same value on their human capital than they do their operations (COO), finances (CFO), information (CIO) etc. by having a Chief People Officer(CPO) at the executive table then maybe the talent shortage and the performance issues will truly have the same value at the 30,000 ft. viewpoint.

]]> By: Ira Wolfe http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18500 Ira Wolfe Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:27:02 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18500 Kevin, I agree with the others that this is an excellent and timely article. But in reading through the responses it's apparent that many people...too many people...place the burden of training squarely on the employer. What happened to responsibility of the employee? Even in this market I hear comments by workers that they're willing to be re-trained if the employer will pay for it. Even when I've recommended a book or two, I've heard "I don't think my employer will pay for that." An even larger concern I have is that the definition of skills by employers and emplotee is much too narrow. As you and several commenters acknowledged C++ programming can be taught but today's market requires much more than just the knowledge of a technical aspect. Knowing how to program plus being able to converse with an end-user or customer in a language other than geek-speak is now part of the required skill-sets. So is agility, adaptability, and openmindedness. Somehow too many people view jobs as an entitlement. Emloyers do need to wake up and recognize that training and re-training is required if they are expecting to compete in today's marketplace. But a worker too has some responsibility in seeking out the training both of a technical nature but also in critical skill areas such as collaboration, problem solving, leadership, communication, etc. Kevin, I agree with the others that this is an excellent and timely article. But in reading through the responses it’s apparent that many people…too many people…place the burden of training squarely on the employer. What happened to responsibility of the employee? Even in this market I hear comments by workers that they’re willing to be re-trained if the employer will pay for it. Even when I’ve recommended a book or two, I’ve heard “I don’t think my employer will pay for that.” An even larger concern I have is that the definition of skills by employers and emplotee is much too narrow. As you and several commenters acknowledged C++ programming can be taught but today’s market requires much more than just the knowledge of a technical aspect. Knowing how to program plus being able to converse with an end-user or customer in a language other than geek-speak is now part of the required skill-sets. So is agility, adaptability, and openmindedness. Somehow too many people view jobs as an entitlement. Emloyers do need to wake up and recognize that training and re-training is required if they are expecting to compete in today’s marketplace. But a worker too has some responsibility in seeking out the training both of a technical nature but also in critical skill areas such as collaboration, problem solving, leadership, communication, etc.

]]> By: Bart Van Keer http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18492 Bart Van Keer Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:27:22 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18492 Hi Kevin, it's a while since we last spoke, I hope all is well. Excellent article! Hi Kevin, it’s a while since we last spoke, I hope all is well. Excellent article!

]]> By: Brenda Le http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18490 Brenda Le Fri, 15 Jan 2010 21:26:03 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18490 Agree - Great comments - More Flexibility, Promote from within, give credit for OJT and experience. Agree – Great comments – More Flexibility, Promote from within, give credit for OJT and experience.

]]> By: Bill Wager http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18486 Bill Wager Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:09:43 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18486 Gee Kevin, remember when we called all that closing? Gee Kevin, remember when we called all that closing?

]]> By: Randy Dalmas http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18485 Randy Dalmas Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:54:06 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18485 Developing employees is not only a quick and cost-effective way to fill positions, but its a great selling point to applicants. Its always a plus telling someone that they are replacing a person that was promoted to a new position because we educate and promote our employees. Developing employees is not only a quick and cost-effective way to fill positions, but its a great selling point to applicants. Its always a plus telling someone that they are replacing a person that was promoted to a new position because we educate and promote our employees.

]]> By: Daniel Volkmann http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18483 Daniel Volkmann Fri, 15 Jan 2010 19:02:38 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18483 As a job seeker, I totally agree that employers/hirers are too narrow in the requirements for positions. IMO, I am a very good/experienced programmer/analyst, but if I don't have skills in ALL of the utilities or languages they are seeking, I am not even considered...even if it would not take any time at all to learn or come up to speed with these skills. I have seen some jobs I have applied to months ago, still posted, unfilled, when I could have been hired, trained, and working up to speed by now...go figure! Another area is Education. I do not have a Bachelor's degree...I did not complete by BA due to full time employment that took priority. Some employers insist on having that piece of paper, even though I have over 20 years experience. Granted there are many who allow experience to account for education, but there are some good jobs I am excluded from applying to, just because I do not posses the piece of paper for a BA. As a job seeker, I totally agree that employers/hirers are too narrow in the requirements for positions.

IMO, I am a very good/experienced programmer/analyst, but if I don’t have skills in ALL of the utilities or languages they are seeking, I am not even considered…even if it would not take any time at all to learn or come up to speed with these skills.

I have seen some jobs I have applied to months ago, still posted, unfilled, when I could have been hired, trained, and working up to speed by now…go figure!

Another area is Education. I do not have a Bachelor’s degree…I did not complete by BA due to full time employment that took priority.
Some employers insist on having that piece of paper, even though I have over 20 years experience. Granted there are many who allow experience to account for education, but there are some good jobs I am excluded from applying to, just because I do not posses the piece of paper for a BA.

]]> By: Brian Kevin Johnston http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18480 Brian Kevin Johnston Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:51:35 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18480 Thanks Kevin... "doing something different" is the key.. I don't know much, but I know this, what we have been doing in recent years does not work or we would not be in the situation we are in globally... Agree? The Corps/People that come out on top, are the adaptable ones, the ones as Kevin talks about "doing something different"..... I sat in on the FUTURE of TALENT (FOT) webinar yesterday and was fascinated and excited about the future of talent/business/recruiting.. Run (dont walk) to follow anything Kevin is doing in terms of speaking, blogs, events, etc. He is without question a "VISIONARY" or "SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT" and has earned these distinctions.. Until we connect/engage again soon, EnJOY your weekend! Brian- Thanks Kevin… “doing something different” is the key.. I don’t know much, but I know this, what we have been doing in recent years does not work or we would not be in the situation we are in globally… Agree?

The Corps/People that come out on top, are the adaptable ones, the ones as Kevin talks about “doing something different”…..

I sat in on the FUTURE of TALENT (FOT) webinar yesterday and was fascinated and excited about the future of talent/business/recruiting..

Run (dont walk) to follow anything Kevin is doing in terms of speaking, blogs, events, etc. He is without question a “VISIONARY” or “SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT” and has earned these distinctions..

Until we connect/engage again soon, EnJOY your weekend!

Brian-

]]> By: Brenda Le http://www.ere.net/2010/01/14/does-our-own-mindset-cause-the-talent-shortage/comment-page-1/#comment-18475 Brenda Le Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:23:11 +0000 http://www.ere.net/?p=11340#comment-18475 Great article, I don't think anyone could have said it better. Kathy, I agree with you - it really gets under my skin to know about the thousands of jobs being sent overseas, when we have candidates here who could be trained. It's funny that companies will spend millions on re-tooling or retro-fitting their own factories, but when it comes to spending a few dollars or time on retraining a candidate, they choose the route of outsourcing. I would personally like to see the "aprenticeship" come back into the picture, not enough of those type of positions out there, but plenty of people to fill them. IBM benefited in a big way by training their own people. Great article, I don’t think anyone could have said it better. Kathy, I agree with you – it really gets under my skin to know about the thousands of jobs being sent overseas, when we have candidates here who could be trained.
It’s funny that companies will spend millions on re-tooling or retro-fitting their own factories, but when it comes to spending a few dollars or time on retraining a candidate, they choose the route of outsourcing.
I would personally like to see the “aprenticeship” come back into the picture, not enough of those type of positions out there, but plenty of people to fill them. IBM benefited in a big way by training their own people.

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