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	<title>Comments on: Why Cost Per Hire Is a Dumb Metric and Quality of Hire Is Not</title>
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		<title>By: Lou Adler</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16554</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Adler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16554</guid>
		<description>All - great discussion! It all goes back to the title of the article - Why Cost Per Hire Is a Dumb Metric and Quality of Hire Is Not. Most people don&#039;t get this, that&#039;s why they haven&#039;t tried to improve Quality of Hire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All &#8211; great discussion! It all goes back to the title of the article &#8211; Why Cost Per Hire Is a Dumb Metric and Quality of Hire Is Not. Most people don&#8217;t get this, that&#8217;s why they haven&#8217;t tried to improve Quality of Hire.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Strauss</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16548</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Strauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16548</guid>
		<description>I contend that there is a bigger debate here than how to measure quality of hire.  If recruiting executives want more influence within organizations, they need to find ways to better measure their importance-period!   Corporate organizations that show a CEO how they can increase shareholder value, revenue, or profit margins (to name a few) are always going to have more influence within a company than those organizations that don’t.   This is one of the biggest factors why CEO’s always talk about attracting talent, but provide Talent Acquisition with limited resources, and often conceal their organizations within HR.  
I am not making any judgments on the ease or difficulty of this task. In fact, I am currently consulting to a Fortune 100 company on how to develop more scientific metrics and it will probably take 12-24 months to implement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I contend that there is a bigger debate here than how to measure quality of hire.  If recruiting executives want more influence within organizations, they need to find ways to better measure their importance-period!   Corporate organizations that show a CEO how they can increase shareholder value, revenue, or profit margins (to name a few) are always going to have more influence within a company than those organizations that don’t.   This is one of the biggest factors why CEO’s always talk about attracting talent, but provide Talent Acquisition with limited resources, and often conceal their organizations within HR.<br />
I am not making any judgments on the ease or difficulty of this task. In fact, I am currently consulting to a Fortune 100 company on how to develop more scientific metrics and it will probably take 12-24 months to implement.</p>
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		<title>By: Heidi Burkley</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16545</link>
		<dc:creator>Heidi Burkley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16545</guid>
		<description>Lou,

One of the companies I worked for used Balance Score Cards.  Essentially our performance was based upon a series of metrics.  If you know what needs to get accomplished then I would think that you can build a hiring/interview process around those metrics. 

I googled Balance Scorecard and found some interesting links. Heidi 


&quot;The Balanced Scorecard is a performance management approach that focuses on various overall performance indicators, often including customer perspective, internal-business processes, learning and growth and financials, to monitor progress toward organization&#039;s strategic goals. Each major unit throughout the organization often establishes its own scorecard which, in turn, is integrated with the scorecards of other units to achieve the scorecard of the overall organization.&quot;




http://managementhelp.org/org_perf/bal_card.htm

https://www.balancedscorecard.org/BSCResources/AbouttheBalancedScorecard/tabid/55/Default.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou,</p>
<p>One of the companies I worked for used Balance Score Cards.  Essentially our performance was based upon a series of metrics.  If you know what needs to get accomplished then I would think that you can build a hiring/interview process around those metrics. </p>
<p>I googled Balance Scorecard and found some interesting links. Heidi </p>
<p>&#8220;The Balanced Scorecard is a performance management approach that focuses on various overall performance indicators, often including customer perspective, internal-business processes, learning and growth and financials, to monitor progress toward organization&#8217;s strategic goals. Each major unit throughout the organization often establishes its own scorecard which, in turn, is integrated with the scorecards of other units to achieve the scorecard of the overall organization.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://managementhelp.org/org_perf/bal_card.htm" rel="nofollow">http://managementhelp.org/org_perf/bal_card.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="https://www.balancedscorecard.org/BSCResources/AbouttheBalancedScorecard/tabid/55/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow">https://www.balancedscorecard.org/BSCResources/AbouttheBalancedScorecard/tabid/55/Default.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Hughes</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16537</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16537</guid>
		<description>If it was as simple as you suggest we would not be having this discussion today.  It is an issue of the organization as well as the manager...with many variables.  I agree that it is critical but requires more effort and work than what is done typically today in most corporations.  Having led large recruiting teams in mult-billion dollar companies I can tell you that it is tougher to move this needle than suggested in this article.  I have seen it embraced by some leaders and dismissed by others with the same results offered to each.  Conceptually it certinly makes sense but until biases and opinions can be fully removed the quality metric will not be embraced as it should be.  External benchmarks and standards need to be introduced to fully remove the internal company biases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it was as simple as you suggest we would not be having this discussion today.  It is an issue of the organization as well as the manager&#8230;with many variables.  I agree that it is critical but requires more effort and work than what is done typically today in most corporations.  Having led large recruiting teams in mult-billion dollar companies I can tell you that it is tougher to move this needle than suggested in this article.  I have seen it embraced by some leaders and dismissed by others with the same results offered to each.  Conceptually it certinly makes sense but until biases and opinions can be fully removed the quality metric will not be embraced as it should be.  External benchmarks and standards need to be introduced to fully remove the internal company biases.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Adler</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16535</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Adler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16535</guid>
		<description>Joshua - I&#039;m off to Chicago - the quick take - evaluate post-hire as many times as you want - it is a mini-performance review using the 10-factor scorecard as the guide. Since pre- and post- is measured in comparison to real jobs needs you can pinpoint problems right away. These could be weak interviewing skills or poor definition of the job or a real problem with the hiring manager, as John pointed out. 

Regardless, you still know the problem areas that need to be corrected.

Best,

Lou</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua &#8211; I&#8217;m off to Chicago &#8211; the quick take &#8211; evaluate post-hire as many times as you want &#8211; it is a mini-performance review using the 10-factor scorecard as the guide. Since pre- and post- is measured in comparison to real jobs needs you can pinpoint problems right away. These could be weak interviewing skills or poor definition of the job or a real problem with the hiring manager, as John pointed out. </p>
<p>Regardless, you still know the problem areas that need to be corrected.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Lou</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Letourneau</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16532</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Letourneau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16532</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Lou - very insightful and much appreciated.

Let me ask another crazy question:

Do you recommend trigger dates for QoH post-hire, such as 3-months, 6-months, 12-months, 18-months, etc.?  This would be  more inline with &#039;performance reviewing&#039; than &#039;QoH post-hire&#039; . . . .

However, I like the notion of &#039;QoH post-hire&#039; as it allows for linking back to &#039;predicted QOH&#039; (aka QOH pre-hire).

I would imagine it would be further interesting and insightful to identify when and where &#039;predicted QoH&#039; was accurate or inaccurate relative to actual performance.  This would then lead to the question, &quot;Why?&quot; . . . at which point you could get to the crux of what&#039;s really going on with the workforce.  The deviations in predicted versus actual could hold tremendous benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Lou &#8211; very insightful and much appreciated.</p>
<p>Let me ask another crazy question:</p>
<p>Do you recommend trigger dates for QoH post-hire, such as 3-months, 6-months, 12-months, 18-months, etc.?  This would be  more inline with &#8216;performance reviewing&#8217; than &#8216;QoH post-hire&#8217; . . . .</p>
<p>However, I like the notion of &#8216;QoH post-hire&#8217; as it allows for linking back to &#8216;predicted QOH&#8217; (aka QOH pre-hire).</p>
<p>I would imagine it would be further interesting and insightful to identify when and where &#8216;predicted QoH&#8217; was accurate or inaccurate relative to actual performance.  This would then lead to the question, &#8220;Why?&#8221; . . . at which point you could get to the crux of what&#8217;s really going on with the workforce.  The deviations in predicted versus actual could hold tremendous benefit.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Adler</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16531</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Adler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16531</guid>
		<description>Joshua - I have never look at the competencies or behaviors first. I always understand the results required for success first. Some people use different skills, behaviors and competencies to achieve the results, so this logical distinction is essential. I then measure the candidates&#039;s past results in comparison to the results expected for an A level person. This is how we calculate QoH pre-hire. 

Here&#039;s the performance based interviewing methodology we train hiring managers to use to do this - http://budurl.com/1qiv. The information from all of the interviewers is summarized on this 10-factor talent scorecard - http://budurl.com/agwb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua &#8211; I have never look at the competencies or behaviors first. I always understand the results required for success first. Some people use different skills, behaviors and competencies to achieve the results, so this logical distinction is essential. I then measure the candidates&#8217;s past results in comparison to the results expected for an A level person. This is how we calculate QoH pre-hire. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the performance based interviewing methodology we train hiring managers to use to do this &#8211; <a href="http://budurl.com/1qiv" rel="nofollow">http://budurl.com/1qiv</a>. The information from all of the interviewers is summarized on this 10-factor talent scorecard &#8211; <a href="http://budurl.com/agwb" rel="nofollow">http://budurl.com/agwb</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Adler</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16530</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Adler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16530</guid>
		<description>Joshua - I have never look at the competencies or behaviors first. I always understand the results required for success first. Some people use different skills, behaviors and competencies to achieve the results, so this logical distinction is essential. I then measure the candidates&#039;s past results in comparison to the results expected for an A level person. This is how we calculate QoH pre-hire. 

Here&#039;s the performance based interviewing methodology we train hiring managers to use to do this - http://budurl.com/1qiv. The information from all of the interviewers is summarized on this 10-factor talent scorecard - http://budurl.com/agwb. 

Email me directly (lou@adlerconcepts.com) if you want to discuss this in more detail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua &#8211; I have never look at the competencies or behaviors first. I always understand the results required for success first. Some people use different skills, behaviors and competencies to achieve the results, so this logical distinction is essential. I then measure the candidates&#8217;s past results in comparison to the results expected for an A level person. This is how we calculate QoH pre-hire. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the performance based interviewing methodology we train hiring managers to use to do this &#8211; <a href="http://budurl.com/1qiv" rel="nofollow">http://budurl.com/1qiv</a>. The information from all of the interviewers is summarized on this 10-factor talent scorecard &#8211; <a href="http://budurl.com/agwb" rel="nofollow">http://budurl.com/agwb</a>. </p>
<p>Email me directly (lou@adlerconcepts.com) if you want to discuss this in more detail.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Letourneau</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16529</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Letourneau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16529</guid>
		<description>Lou, quick question as I&#039;m interested here - the foray into performance analysis could be a learning opportunity for many, myself included --

You speak to analyzing data points in performance (i.e. &quot;all increased their territory growth rates by 10-12% per year&quot;, etc.) . . . however . . . 

It&#039;s easy to identify the competencies, behaviors, accomplishments, etc. of high-performing professionals already employed at the organization.  A simple regression analysis would yield many insights.

However, here is the draw - here is the real meat and potatoes of the conversation:

How do we analyze these high-performing traits, competencies, behaviors, etc. from a interviewing standpoint.  Obviously, the data points couldn&#039;t be consistent - there are too many variables to account for.  Growing territory sales 10% - 12% per year at a mature organization may be impressive, yet is extremely weak for an early-stage organization.  It&#039;s a simple analogy, but a relevant one.  As such, there would be subjective analysis involved . . . because unless all other variables were equal, the interview/experiment/assessment would be greatly compromised.

Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou, quick question as I&#8217;m interested here &#8211; the foray into performance analysis could be a learning opportunity for many, myself included &#8211;</p>
<p>You speak to analyzing data points in performance (i.e. &#8220;all increased their territory growth rates by 10-12% per year&#8221;, etc.) . . . however . . . </p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to identify the competencies, behaviors, accomplishments, etc. of high-performing professionals already employed at the organization.  A simple regression analysis would yield many insights.</p>
<p>However, here is the draw &#8211; here is the real meat and potatoes of the conversation:</p>
<p>How do we analyze these high-performing traits, competencies, behaviors, etc. from a interviewing standpoint.  Obviously, the data points couldn&#8217;t be consistent &#8211; there are too many variables to account for.  Growing territory sales 10% &#8211; 12% per year at a mature organization may be impressive, yet is extremely weak for an early-stage organization.  It&#8217;s a simple analogy, but a relevant one.  As such, there would be subjective analysis involved . . . because unless all other variables were equal, the interview/experiment/assessment would be greatly compromised.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Adler</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16526</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Adler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16526</guid>
		<description>John - While it takes some effort, it actually is relatively simple to measure quality even when the hiring manager is a C level person - just ask if there&#039;s a difference between the best people that work in the group and the worst. Then define these differences - these become the performance objectives of the A-level person. For example,

at a F100 sales group of 75 sales managers, 2/3 were average or below managers, yet their A level sales people all made quota with six months, all increased their territory growth rates by 10-12% per year, and all made 8-10 presentations per month to CIOs at F1000 companies. We measured candidates on their comparable past performance to determine the quality of hire on a pre-hire basis. However, we did have to move the effort to attract these people to a higher level manager. 

At a major F100 company that manages hospital pharmacies we conducted a job analysis at three of their best pharmacies to see what the best pharmacists do. Surprisingly, the only difference in performance between those that worked for weaker managers was their lack of need for support from their bosses. 

The point of all this is to say that quality of hire can be measured for any job for any manager as long as you decide not to make excuses about why it can&#039;t be done. We&#039;ve done this for over 500 jobs in the past 20 years, and the hiring managers were representative of the good, the bad and the ugly. 

By understanding what the best people do in the particular job is the key here, irrespective of the manager. Then you need to make an adjustment for managerial differences, and find people who can still perform at high levels despite a weak manager.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John &#8211; While it takes some effort, it actually is relatively simple to measure quality even when the hiring manager is a C level person &#8211; just ask if there&#8217;s a difference between the best people that work in the group and the worst. Then define these differences &#8211; these become the performance objectives of the A-level person. For example,</p>
<p>at a F100 sales group of 75 sales managers, 2/3 were average or below managers, yet their A level sales people all made quota with six months, all increased their territory growth rates by 10-12% per year, and all made 8-10 presentations per month to CIOs at F1000 companies. We measured candidates on their comparable past performance to determine the quality of hire on a pre-hire basis. However, we did have to move the effort to attract these people to a higher level manager. </p>
<p>At a major F100 company that manages hospital pharmacies we conducted a job analysis at three of their best pharmacies to see what the best pharmacists do. Surprisingly, the only difference in performance between those that worked for weaker managers was their lack of need for support from their bosses. </p>
<p>The point of all this is to say that quality of hire can be measured for any job for any manager as long as you decide not to make excuses about why it can&#8217;t be done. We&#8217;ve done this for over 500 jobs in the past 20 years, and the hiring managers were representative of the good, the bad and the ugly. </p>
<p>By understanding what the best people do in the particular job is the key here, irrespective of the manager. Then you need to make an adjustment for managerial differences, and find people who can still perform at high levels despite a weak manager.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Letourneau</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16522</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Letourneau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16522</guid>
		<description>Now you&#039;re talking, John - your injection of reality and clarity is appreciated.  Assuming we can define quality properly, and assuming that a Hiring Managers can properly identify it, would throw out any and all notions of &quot;fit&quot;.  Ah, yes, &quot;fit&quot; - the ultimate safety net for the &#039;real reasons&#039; candidates are passed over; the reasons that get logged in minds, yet never make it to paper, email, or the Talent Management System.  &quot;Fit&quot; allows for all the rules to be tossed out, including all the &#039;data points&#039; and &#039;performance criteria&#039;, etc.  Oh, and if &quot;fit&quot; is the reason for disqualification, it&#039;s pretty easy to rate the interview and all data points lower than they really are!  A little &#039;gaming&#039; with your coffee this morning, everyone? :)

I continue to be shocked that Cost per hire is still used as the primary KPI in Recruiting.  I mean, seriously, Cost per hire?  Articles about the weakness of CPH date back eons, yet we&#039;re still discussing, so perhaps there is too much white noise in the market to see the forest through the trees.

P.S. When those at the VP of Talent Acquisition level start having conversations beyond CPH, watch what will happen: The rest of the market will follow suit . . . but until leadership buys in, articles on the futility of CPH will still make it to ERE in 2050.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now you&#8217;re talking, John &#8211; your injection of reality and clarity is appreciated.  Assuming we can define quality properly, and assuming that a Hiring Managers can properly identify it, would throw out any and all notions of &#8220;fit&#8221;.  Ah, yes, &#8220;fit&#8221; &#8211; the ultimate safety net for the &#8216;real reasons&#8217; candidates are passed over; the reasons that get logged in minds, yet never make it to paper, email, or the Talent Management System.  &#8220;Fit&#8221; allows for all the rules to be tossed out, including all the &#8216;data points&#8217; and &#8216;performance criteria&#8217;, etc.  Oh, and if &#8220;fit&#8221; is the reason for disqualification, it&#8217;s pretty easy to rate the interview and all data points lower than they really are!  A little &#8216;gaming&#8217; with your coffee this morning, everyone? :)</p>
<p>I continue to be shocked that Cost per hire is still used as the primary KPI in Recruiting.  I mean, seriously, Cost per hire?  Articles about the weakness of CPH date back eons, yet we&#8217;re still discussing, so perhaps there is too much white noise in the market to see the forest through the trees.</p>
<p>P.S. When those at the VP of Talent Acquisition level start having conversations beyond CPH, watch what will happen: The rest of the market will follow suit . . . but until leadership buys in, articles on the futility of CPH will still make it to ERE in 2050.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hughes</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16495</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16495</guid>
		<description>Not that simple Lou.  Often times the hiring manager is not an A player themselves. To sipmly ask them the difference between A, B and C level will not be enough. (It is a needed data point.) Sometimes entire companies are comprised of B and C players.  They may think they are A or may not even know where they truly fall.  The focus in developing a strong quality of hire metric must be real data that all see as factual and tangible.  Otherwise it will be dismissed as conjecture and fluff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that simple Lou.  Often times the hiring manager is not an A player themselves. To sipmly ask them the difference between A, B and C level will not be enough. (It is a needed data point.) Sometimes entire companies are comprised of B and C players.  They may think they are A or may not even know where they truly fall.  The focus in developing a strong quality of hire metric must be real data that all see as factual and tangible.  Otherwise it will be dismissed as conjecture and fluff.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Adler</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16492</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Adler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16492</guid>
		<description>Heidi - don&#039;t be humble - your points are 100% right on! To measure quality just ask the hiring manager what A level people do in comparison to B level and in comparison to C level. That make sure the answers can be validated.

For a pharmacist is might be working odd shifts, accurately filling Rx, checking all Rx against the Rx db for incompatibility, training assistants in the store, using new technology, staying current on latest drug trends, speaking at a conference, no turnover, and so on. 

The point is there is a measurable difference in performance for all jobs from 16 year old camp counselors at the YMCA, to FedEx delivery folks and senior engineers designing the new Reaper drone. The more important point is that recruiters and hiring managers need to know what these differences are so they can measure them during the interview. (Note - make sure you download the talent scorecard to see how this is used to rank candidates against real job needs.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heidi &#8211; don&#8217;t be humble &#8211; your points are 100% right on! To measure quality just ask the hiring manager what A level people do in comparison to B level and in comparison to C level. That make sure the answers can be validated.</p>
<p>For a pharmacist is might be working odd shifts, accurately filling Rx, checking all Rx against the Rx db for incompatibility, training assistants in the store, using new technology, staying current on latest drug trends, speaking at a conference, no turnover, and so on. </p>
<p>The point is there is a measurable difference in performance for all jobs from 16 year old camp counselors at the YMCA, to FedEx delivery folks and senior engineers designing the new Reaper drone. The more important point is that recruiters and hiring managers need to know what these differences are so they can measure them during the interview. (Note &#8211; make sure you download the talent scorecard to see how this is used to rank candidates against real job needs.)</p>
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		<title>By: Heidi Burkley</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16491</link>
		<dc:creator>Heidi Burkley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16491</guid>
		<description>Barbara,

I enjoyed reading your response; you certainly have provided food for the thought.  In my humble opinion one of the biggest mistakes made in hiring decisions is the failure of HR and the HM to properly identify the key measurements needed to select the right individual with just the right skills and ability to accomplish a set goal. For example, simply stating you are seeking a “superstar” and listing a series of exhausting and rigid requirements is not enough.  By the way, this may lead to a poorly executed selection process, higher turnover, lower moral, dissatisfied employees, decreased productivity and a highly negative work environment.   I would argue that often we look at the wrong measurements to decide whether or not a person is the best fit for a certain role.  

While I agree with you that it&#039;s difficult to measure the quality of hire, I disagree with you that it’s impossible.  I personally believe that hiring decision based upon a holistic perspective will yield higher ROI vs. a tactical and choppy approach that’s heavily weighted upon non essentials.  Essentially I believe it’s ineffective to place a top performer in a role without properly thinking through how this individual will add value to the overall organizational objective and goals. For example (I’ll keep it simple) if a role required the individual to drive operational productivity what would the quality measures be to determine the individual’s success or failure rate?

Customer Service
•	Reduced complaints
•	Positive customer feedback
Operation 
•	Reduction in inefficiencies, waste and defects
•	Greater output
Health and Safety measures
•	Reduction in Injuries
•	Reduction in Accidents


As you can see, these components can be measured and they have an indirect impact on organization and financial results.  Ultimately, if the individual in this role can decrease inefficiencies, drive output, and contribute to organizational growth then one can assume that’s a quality hire.  Again you must look at the overall picture, determine what skills are needed to accomplished the required goals and seek out QUALIFIED people.  

These are just my humble thoughts….

Heidi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barbara,</p>
<p>I enjoyed reading your response; you certainly have provided food for the thought.  In my humble opinion one of the biggest mistakes made in hiring decisions is the failure of HR and the HM to properly identify the key measurements needed to select the right individual with just the right skills and ability to accomplish a set goal. For example, simply stating you are seeking a “superstar” and listing a series of exhausting and rigid requirements is not enough.  By the way, this may lead to a poorly executed selection process, higher turnover, lower moral, dissatisfied employees, decreased productivity and a highly negative work environment.   I would argue that often we look at the wrong measurements to decide whether or not a person is the best fit for a certain role.  </p>
<p>While I agree with you that it&#8217;s difficult to measure the quality of hire, I disagree with you that it’s impossible.  I personally believe that hiring decision based upon a holistic perspective will yield higher ROI vs. a tactical and choppy approach that’s heavily weighted upon non essentials.  Essentially I believe it’s ineffective to place a top performer in a role without properly thinking through how this individual will add value to the overall organizational objective and goals. For example (I’ll keep it simple) if a role required the individual to drive operational productivity what would the quality measures be to determine the individual’s success or failure rate?</p>
<p>Customer Service<br />
•	Reduced complaints<br />
•	Positive customer feedback<br />
Operation<br />
•	Reduction in inefficiencies, waste and defects<br />
•	Greater output<br />
Health and Safety measures<br />
•	Reduction in Injuries<br />
•	Reduction in Accidents</p>
<p>As you can see, these components can be measured and they have an indirect impact on organization and financial results.  Ultimately, if the individual in this role can decrease inefficiencies, drive output, and contribute to organizational growth then one can assume that’s a quality hire.  Again you must look at the overall picture, determine what skills are needed to accomplished the required goals and seek out QUALIFIED people.  </p>
<p>These are just my humble thoughts….</p>
<p>Heidi</p>
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		<title>By: barbara goldman</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16483</link>
		<dc:creator>barbara goldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16483</guid>
		<description>We can talk about quality, what does it mean?

My company recruits in the pharmaceutical, biotech and health care industries.

How does one measure the quality of the hire? Let&#039;s say I place a pharmacist at a hospital. That particular pharmacist makes mistakes, or doesn&#039;t make mistakes in the pharmacy. We can measure the errors, and compare them against industry average. That is one tangible way to measure the hire. What if that pharmacist doesn&#039;t stay on the job? What if a pharmacist catches an error that a doctor made, and saves a life? But what if that same pharmacist makes a small mistake, one that nobody notices? What if that same pharmacist is someone who sucks the life out of everyone around him with his negative personality or anti-social behavior? 

If a pharmacist saves a life because a doctor made a mistake, how much is that worth to the hospital? To the patient&#039;s family? Let&#039;s say the next day, the same pharmacist, who is human and full of human frailities, overloads a baby with heparin? 

This is real life, not some crazy measurement. 

What if a great hire, a quality person, leaves the company at the 13th month of employment, but during that time brought value to the company? Is that a quality hire, or not? 

Quality is easier to measure in sales. If a new salesperson brings important accounts with him, but doesn&#039;t expand the company by going after new business, is that a good hire? 

Ok, let&#039;s look at biotech. What if a researcher develops a molecule that brings millions into the company? What is the cost of not hiring that person? What if a researcher works for years only to be turned down by the FDA? Is that a bad hire? What if that same persons creativity, and good attitude motivates everyone around him, and THEY develop a molecule that works? 

Healthcare is another good example. How fast can a nurse scoot down the hall to deliver pain meds? Slowly, but surely? Or quickly so that the patient &#039;feels&#039; taken care of, and spreads goodwill about the hospital? 

What if that same researcher who made millions for the biotech company, has an attendence problem? Is that a bad hire/ or a good hire. What if everyone who works with him can&#039;t stand him, and it causes other researchers to quit? 

We can put numbers on anything, and what we are measuring is subjective. The reason that executives are so frustrated with HR, is because they don&#039;t get it.  

Talk to executives, who aren&#039;t sitting around in HR measuring people, what matters? What is the CEO measuring? How is she measured? Bringing value to shareholders? At what cost? 

Now here&#039;s a good question for you. Let&#039;s say a hospital is short staffed in the pharmacy? What does it cost the hospital? Does anyone care? I do. Because I know. Mistakes are made, the pharmacists who are on the payroll are frustrated and tired, and people die. But, cost per hire might be down. And, when the hospital did hire, they hired quality people. But for what good? 

One more thing to consider. I am in the middle of placing an executive at a failing company. They are worried about the fee. There will be no company if the molecule doesn&#039;t pass FDA muster. And, if they can&#039;t afford a fee, they can&#039;t afford my candidate. My candidate is a proven scientist who has been in front of the FDA hundreds of times. Now, what is the company thinking? Cost per hire? What about quality? How do we measure? What if, after all is said and done, my candidate does work for the company, and still can&#039;t get FDA approval? Is this a quality hire? 

The problem with HR is not understanding what makes a quality hire, but going ahead and measuring it anyway. 

Again, what is the position, when filled worth to the corporation? Does the candidate just by doing the job bring value? 

Please, HR people! Anyone teaching recruiting needs to work a desk, and talk to executives. Anyone in HR who is trying to come up with measurements about quality might be satisfying some strange requirement, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to measure. Cost per hire? PLEASE, maybe you can do that for menial jobs. Quality? Well, I still say impossible to measure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can talk about quality, what does it mean?</p>
<p>My company recruits in the pharmaceutical, biotech and health care industries.</p>
<p>How does one measure the quality of the hire? Let&#8217;s say I place a pharmacist at a hospital. That particular pharmacist makes mistakes, or doesn&#8217;t make mistakes in the pharmacy. We can measure the errors, and compare them against industry average. That is one tangible way to measure the hire. What if that pharmacist doesn&#8217;t stay on the job? What if a pharmacist catches an error that a doctor made, and saves a life? But what if that same pharmacist makes a small mistake, one that nobody notices? What if that same pharmacist is someone who sucks the life out of everyone around him with his negative personality or anti-social behavior? </p>
<p>If a pharmacist saves a life because a doctor made a mistake, how much is that worth to the hospital? To the patient&#8217;s family? Let&#8217;s say the next day, the same pharmacist, who is human and full of human frailities, overloads a baby with heparin? </p>
<p>This is real life, not some crazy measurement. </p>
<p>What if a great hire, a quality person, leaves the company at the 13th month of employment, but during that time brought value to the company? Is that a quality hire, or not? </p>
<p>Quality is easier to measure in sales. If a new salesperson brings important accounts with him, but doesn&#8217;t expand the company by going after new business, is that a good hire? </p>
<p>Ok, let&#8217;s look at biotech. What if a researcher develops a molecule that brings millions into the company? What is the cost of not hiring that person? What if a researcher works for years only to be turned down by the FDA? Is that a bad hire? What if that same persons creativity, and good attitude motivates everyone around him, and THEY develop a molecule that works? </p>
<p>Healthcare is another good example. How fast can a nurse scoot down the hall to deliver pain meds? Slowly, but surely? Or quickly so that the patient &#8216;feels&#8217; taken care of, and spreads goodwill about the hospital? </p>
<p>What if that same researcher who made millions for the biotech company, has an attendence problem? Is that a bad hire/ or a good hire. What if everyone who works with him can&#8217;t stand him, and it causes other researchers to quit? </p>
<p>We can put numbers on anything, and what we are measuring is subjective. The reason that executives are so frustrated with HR, is because they don&#8217;t get it.  </p>
<p>Talk to executives, who aren&#8217;t sitting around in HR measuring people, what matters? What is the CEO measuring? How is she measured? Bringing value to shareholders? At what cost? </p>
<p>Now here&#8217;s a good question for you. Let&#8217;s say a hospital is short staffed in the pharmacy? What does it cost the hospital? Does anyone care? I do. Because I know. Mistakes are made, the pharmacists who are on the payroll are frustrated and tired, and people die. But, cost per hire might be down. And, when the hospital did hire, they hired quality people. But for what good? </p>
<p>One more thing to consider. I am in the middle of placing an executive at a failing company. They are worried about the fee. There will be no company if the molecule doesn&#8217;t pass FDA muster. And, if they can&#8217;t afford a fee, they can&#8217;t afford my candidate. My candidate is a proven scientist who has been in front of the FDA hundreds of times. Now, what is the company thinking? Cost per hire? What about quality? How do we measure? What if, after all is said and done, my candidate does work for the company, and still can&#8217;t get FDA approval? Is this a quality hire? </p>
<p>The problem with HR is not understanding what makes a quality hire, but going ahead and measuring it anyway. </p>
<p>Again, what is the position, when filled worth to the corporation? Does the candidate just by doing the job bring value? </p>
<p>Please, HR people! Anyone teaching recruiting needs to work a desk, and talk to executives. Anyone in HR who is trying to come up with measurements about quality might be satisfying some strange requirement, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to measure. Cost per hire? PLEASE, maybe you can do that for menial jobs. Quality? Well, I still say impossible to measure.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hughes</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16466</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16466</guid>
		<description>Cost per hire can be pretty interesting if you have a sourcing scorecard as a variable.  We measured sources(inclding spend) on approximately 400 exempt hires a year for four years.  It helped us focus our dollars and determine best use of our time and energy...not to mention it made a nice tie ino quality of hire...interesting results here.  The business found it interesting as well as we could expalain how we found talent as well as costs associated with it...net was it became easier for us to get budget allocated for sourcing programs because we could explain cost per hire in a what made practical sense.  
Quality of hire is a &quot;thornier&quot; metric but I would agree as critical.  The issue is ensuring the opinion of a few is taken out of the equation and hard metrics are used...this will exclude most companies from producing an accurate measurment.  Biases end up playing a large role without the hard work getting done on the front side to really determine what success looks like in a role.  HR must see it as a priority as well as they often times own the development/succession piece and have most of the available data on individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cost per hire can be pretty interesting if you have a sourcing scorecard as a variable.  We measured sources(inclding spend) on approximately 400 exempt hires a year for four years.  It helped us focus our dollars and determine best use of our time and energy&#8230;not to mention it made a nice tie ino quality of hire&#8230;interesting results here.  The business found it interesting as well as we could expalain how we found talent as well as costs associated with it&#8230;net was it became easier for us to get budget allocated for sourcing programs because we could explain cost per hire in a what made practical sense.<br />
Quality of hire is a &#8220;thornier&#8221; metric but I would agree as critical.  The issue is ensuring the opinion of a few is taken out of the equation and hard metrics are used&#8230;this will exclude most companies from producing an accurate measurment.  Biases end up playing a large role without the hard work getting done on the front side to really determine what success looks like in a role.  HR must see it as a priority as well as they often times own the development/succession piece and have most of the available data on individuals.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Beardsley</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16464</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Beardsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16464</guid>
		<description>I know several sofware firms that measure cost per line of code.  One particular SW firms told me last week that they dropped their cost per line of doce from $120.00 per line to $5.00 per line by implementing a global bidding network to produce their code.  So, Lou, it is not far fetched, as you insinuate in your last post. There are a lot of people and insudtired that have figured out how to make the metric work for them.  Too bad we, in recruiterworld, after hundreds of years of eveloving the profession, still have not figured it out.

 Again, I generally tend to agree with you, but the word &quot;dumb&quot; incites me, especially when I am being told from a so called industry expert, that something I beleive in is &quot;dumb&quot;.  That is a bad word to choose, albeit I tend to agree with the concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know several sofware firms that measure cost per line of code.  One particular SW firms told me last week that they dropped their cost per line of doce from $120.00 per line to $5.00 per line by implementing a global bidding network to produce their code.  So, Lou, it is not far fetched, as you insinuate in your last post. There are a lot of people and insudtired that have figured out how to make the metric work for them.  Too bad we, in recruiterworld, after hundreds of years of eveloving the profession, still have not figured it out.</p>
<p> Again, I generally tend to agree with you, but the word &#8220;dumb&#8221; incites me, especially when I am being told from a so called industry expert, that something I beleive in is &#8220;dumb&#8221;.  That is a bad word to choose, albeit I tend to agree with the concept.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Strauss</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16461</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Strauss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16461</guid>
		<description>I can’t agree with Lou more… I don’t want to be confrontational, but cost per hire is not only a dumb metric, it should be insulting to all of us in the industry.  I hear over and over again how recruiters and recruiting leaders do not want to be treated like administrative professionals and that they want to be treated like strategic partners.  Cost per hire is an administrative metric that was developed when recruiters were considered HR professionals.   

The industry needs real metrics that measure business impact, value to the organization, impact to shareholder value, ect…Most importantly, whatever metrics TA leaders can develop must align to a company’s overall business objectives.     

This is an important debate.  Keep up the fight Lou! 

Alan Strauss
Founder
TALC
alan@startfinder.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can’t agree with Lou more… I don’t want to be confrontational, but cost per hire is not only a dumb metric, it should be insulting to all of us in the industry.  I hear over and over again how recruiters and recruiting leaders do not want to be treated like administrative professionals and that they want to be treated like strategic partners.  Cost per hire is an administrative metric that was developed when recruiters were considered HR professionals.   </p>
<p>The industry needs real metrics that measure business impact, value to the organization, impact to shareholder value, ect…Most importantly, whatever metrics TA leaders can develop must align to a company’s overall business objectives.     </p>
<p>This is an important debate.  Keep up the fight Lou! </p>
<p>Alan Strauss<br />
Founder<br />
TALC<br />
<a href="mailto:alan@startfinder.com">alan@startfinder.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lou Adler</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16460</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Adler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16460</guid>
		<description>The more I ponder it, I&#039;ve got to say LOUDLY that not only is cost per hire dumb, it&#039;s more dumb than I originally thought. Of course, you need to manage total costs, but managing it on a cost per hire basis is absolutely the wrong way to do it. It&#039;s like the software department measuring cost per line of code or accounting measuring the cost per balance sheet produced. Creating metrics for the sake of having metrics is misguided.  

Managing recruiting department budgets efficiently is one thing, but using this to determine success or failure is another. In my mind it&#039;s an indication that the department is out of touch with their prime role - maximizing candidate quality and quality of hire. 

And if you&#039;ve ever placed a great person, a good person, an average person and a bad person, you absolutely know you can measure quality of hire. Metrics measuring these differences are essential.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more I ponder it, I&#8217;ve got to say LOUDLY that not only is cost per hire dumb, it&#8217;s more dumb than I originally thought. Of course, you need to manage total costs, but managing it on a cost per hire basis is absolutely the wrong way to do it. It&#8217;s like the software department measuring cost per line of code or accounting measuring the cost per balance sheet produced. Creating metrics for the sake of having metrics is misguided.  </p>
<p>Managing recruiting department budgets efficiently is one thing, but using this to determine success or failure is another. In my mind it&#8217;s an indication that the department is out of touch with their prime role &#8211; maximizing candidate quality and quality of hire. </p>
<p>And if you&#8217;ve ever placed a great person, a good person, an average person and a bad person, you absolutely know you can measure quality of hire. Metrics measuring these differences are essential.</p>
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		<title>By: Kunal Malhotra</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/30/why-cost-per-hire-is-a-dumb-metric-and-quality-of-hire-is-not/comment-page-1/#comment-16453</link>
		<dc:creator>Kunal Malhotra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 11:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10547#comment-16453</guid>
		<description>I agree with Neils comment that this is a non-issue. If at all there should be a metric then it should be based on &quot;engagement&quot; value of an employee and not quality because

1. Quality is a subjective and relative measure
2. Quality is not easily quantifiable

Agree, that there are frameworks out there such as 360 degree evaluation which let you measure quality (to an extent) but in my humble opinion they are again based on emotional responses of the respondents, which make the data subjective. 

This post also assumes &quot;a one size fits all&quot; position, which doesn&#039;t recognise an individual company&#039;s current state and doesn&#039;t take into account their current challenges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Neils comment that this is a non-issue. If at all there should be a metric then it should be based on &#8220;engagement&#8221; value of an employee and not quality because</p>
<p>1. Quality is a subjective and relative measure<br />
2. Quality is not easily quantifiable</p>
<p>Agree, that there are frameworks out there such as 360 degree evaluation which let you measure quality (to an extent) but in my humble opinion they are again based on emotional responses of the respondents, which make the data subjective. </p>
<p>This post also assumes &#8220;a one size fits all&#8221; position, which doesn&#8217;t recognise an individual company&#8217;s current state and doesn&#8217;t take into account their current challenges.</p>
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