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	<title>Comments on: Wanted: Cash for Hires</title>
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		<title>By: Coming Soon to an Employer Near You: Cash for Hires : ERE.net</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-16095</link>
		<dc:creator>Coming Soon to an Employer Near You: Cash for Hires : ERE.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-16095</guid>
		<description>[...] recently wrote about the need to directly stimulate job creation by giving employers incentives to hire workers. I’m glad to say that the government is taking the advice [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently wrote about the need to directly stimulate job creation by giving employers incentives to hire workers. I’m glad to say that the government is taking the advice [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Ruff</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15719</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Ruff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15719</guid>
		<description>&quot;Didn’t Goldwater have that add with the nuclear explosion, really riled people up, was great. Scared folks big time …&quot;...

Actually, that was an LBJ ad that was intended to frighten voters into believing that Goldwater would lead us into nuclear war.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Didn’t Goldwater have that add with the nuclear explosion, really riled people up, was great. Scared folks big time …&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>Actually, that was an LBJ ad that was intended to frighten voters into believing that Goldwater would lead us into nuclear war.  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Dromgoole</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15709</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Dromgoole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15709</guid>
		<description>Wow, they don&#039;t read like Mr. Conservative.  Didn&#039;t Goldwater have that add with the nuclear explosion, really riled people up, was great.  Scared folks big time ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, they don&#8217;t read like Mr. Conservative.  Didn&#8217;t Goldwater have that add with the nuclear explosion, really riled people up, was great.  Scared folks big time &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Snyder</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15708</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Snyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15708</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the good word Robert.  The irony is that my politics are mostly in-line with the old Barry Goldwater school, which today is dirty hippie think.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the good word Robert.  The irony is that my politics are mostly in-line with the old Barry Goldwater school, which today is dirty hippie think&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Dromgoole</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15707</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Dromgoole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15707</guid>
		<description>Martin, on another note, although I almost totally disagree with most of your points, I just want to thank you for providing educated discourse.  Your comments really add to the depth of the issue and article.  These are the types of discussions which create the synergy needed to solve these problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin, on another note, although I almost totally disagree with most of your points, I just want to thank you for providing educated discourse.  Your comments really add to the depth of the issue and article.  These are the types of discussions which create the synergy needed to solve these problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Snyder</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15706</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Snyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15706</guid>
		<description>Raghav, lucky for us, there is already such a massive bureaucracy controlling 95% of world trade- the WTO.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization

Economies everywhere are kind of gummed up as it is.  One way or another, on a global basis, we have to do better at ensuring a basic standard of living for the creators of everything we buy- across economies- or the price of human life can go below zero....

Trading with virtual slave states and pretending that those are free market transactions (because there are short term profits) eventually causes problems at home in lots of ways...is that a suprise ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raghav, lucky for us, there is already such a massive bureaucracy controlling 95% of world trade- the WTO.  </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization</a></p>
<p>Economies everywhere are kind of gummed up as it is.  One way or another, on a global basis, we have to do better at ensuring a basic standard of living for the creators of everything we buy- across economies- or the price of human life can go below zero&#8230;.</p>
<p>Trading with virtual slave states and pretending that those are free market transactions (because there are short term profits) eventually causes problems at home in lots of ways&#8230;is that a suprise ?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Dromgoole</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15705</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Dromgoole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15705</guid>
		<description>Raghav, I love your controversial articles.  Great piece and I have to agree with it.  Well written, great research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raghav, I love your controversial articles.  Great piece and I have to agree with it.  Well written, great research.</p>
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		<title>By: Raghav Singh</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15702</link>
		<dc:creator>Raghav Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15702</guid>
		<description>A global minimum wage? Perish the thought. Then again, it would create a lot of jobs at the massive bureaucracy created to administer it. It could be called the Global Unemployment Management (GUM) program - since it would gum up economies everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A global minimum wage? Perish the thought. Then again, it would create a lot of jobs at the massive bureaucracy created to administer it. It could be called the Global Unemployment Management (GUM) program &#8211; since it would gum up economies everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Hefferlin</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15701</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Hefferlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15701</guid>
		<description>Raghav,
       As usual, love your stuff. Now that the Olympic Committee turned down Obama, and the Iran thing is dealt with (albeit a nice delay so the &#039;Big A(yatolla)&#039; can spruce up the place) he has to tackle Afghanistan, then Health Care (again), then another (the 4th?) Stimulus Package to try to do what #3 didn&#039;t (keep unemployment below 8%). 1st will be the extention of 1st time home buying $8k credits past November.
       No immigration reform or Cap n Trade this year, with U 6 including the underemployed and those who quit looking at 17% or 25 Million - Yikes!  Taxing the rich, and most small and large businesses and job creation happens here, could insure a Double Dip, along with the drop in Commercial Loans (due to banks using gov&#039;t loans to spiff up their capital standing) and the drop in M2 in recent months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raghav,<br />
       As usual, love your stuff. Now that the Olympic Committee turned down Obama, and the Iran thing is dealt with (albeit a nice delay so the &#8216;Big A(yatolla)&#8217; can spruce up the place) he has to tackle Afghanistan, then Health Care (again), then another (the 4th?) Stimulus Package to try to do what #3 didn&#8217;t (keep unemployment below 8%). 1st will be the extention of 1st time home buying $8k credits past November.<br />
       No immigration reform or Cap n Trade this year, with U 6 including the underemployed and those who quit looking at 17% or 25 Million &#8211; Yikes!  Taxing the rich, and most small and large businesses and job creation happens here, could insure a Double Dip, along with the drop in Commercial Loans (due to banks using gov&#8217;t loans to spiff up their capital standing) and the drop in M2 in recent months.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Snyder</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15699</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Snyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15699</guid>
		<description>Colin Government cannot really &quot;create&quot; any jobs.  It can raise taxes and shift private sector jobs to government jobs (often a malinvestment), and it can bring production and consumption forward (cash for clunkers) but real jobs are only created by additions to the value chain. 

State JCTC (job creation tax credit) programs have generally been found to draw jobs from other states and non-effective without being refundable to zero or low-liability taxpayers in the 26 or so states that offer them.  A federal program would likely not be effective unless it drew job creation investment from international markets. 

Now a global minimum wage and environmental/socal spending index tied to international trade rules could in fact help America out of this jam, since we are among the hardest working and most productive workers in the world.....

Level the playing field globally and we could be looking pretty good....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colin Government cannot really &#8220;create&#8221; any jobs.  It can raise taxes and shift private sector jobs to government jobs (often a malinvestment), and it can bring production and consumption forward (cash for clunkers) but real jobs are only created by additions to the value chain. </p>
<p>State JCTC (job creation tax credit) programs have generally been found to draw jobs from other states and non-effective without being refundable to zero or low-liability taxpayers in the 26 or so states that offer them.  A federal program would likely not be effective unless it drew job creation investment from international markets. </p>
<p>Now a global minimum wage and environmental/socal spending index tied to international trade rules could in fact help America out of this jam, since we are among the hardest working and most productive workers in the world&#8230;..</p>
<p>Level the playing field globally and we could be looking pretty good&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Kingsbury</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15697</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Kingsbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15697</guid>
		<description>Raghav, this is a great idea and one that got a lot of support from GMU economists Bryan Caplan and Arnold Kling, here among others:

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/01/smart_stimulus.html

Martin, the idea here is a cut to the payroll tax, you know, that 7.65% or so that all of us employers get to pay on our gross payroll. It&#039;s not like WOTC or some other feel-good program that would only affect a few percent of companies.

If the gov&#039;t said &quot;no payroll tax this year,&quot; it would put cash back in every employer&#039;s pocket, (importantly) including those who are losing money and paying no corporate income tax.

Another thing about this approach that is great is that it pushes the money out into the system nearly instantly. The point of stimulus, if it has any point at all, is to offset the drop in spending that is happening today. But the current stimulus bill spend most of its money in 2011 and 2012, because it all goes to projects that can take years to bring online. Of course, the way things are going, we may still need stimulus then, so maybe our leaders will tell us it was their brilliant plan all along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raghav, this is a great idea and one that got a lot of support from GMU economists Bryan Caplan and Arnold Kling, here among others:</p>
<p><a href="http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/01/smart_stimulus.html" rel="nofollow">http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/01/smart_stimulus.html</a></p>
<p>Martin, the idea here is a cut to the payroll tax, you know, that 7.65% or so that all of us employers get to pay on our gross payroll. It&#8217;s not like WOTC or some other feel-good program that would only affect a few percent of companies.</p>
<p>If the gov&#8217;t said &#8220;no payroll tax this year,&#8221; it would put cash back in every employer&#8217;s pocket, (importantly) including those who are losing money and paying no corporate income tax.</p>
<p>Another thing about this approach that is great is that it pushes the money out into the system nearly instantly. The point of stimulus, if it has any point at all, is to offset the drop in spending that is happening today. But the current stimulus bill spend most of its money in 2011 and 2012, because it all goes to projects that can take years to bring online. Of course, the way things are going, we may still need stimulus then, so maybe our leaders will tell us it was their brilliant plan all along.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Snyder</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2009/10/07/wanted-cash-for-hires/comment-page-1/#comment-15694</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Snyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=10212#comment-15694</guid>
		<description>Raghav, both the tax credit theory and the impact of the minimum wage have been well studied and the consensus points to the opposite of your conclusions.

On the min wage- the findings are that the number of wage earners at that wage is not high, that the market for those type of workers is relativly inelastic, and that the overall economic impact is not material.  The Card and Krueger study is usually the one most often debated in this instance, but even the most anti-minimum wage economists now agree the impact is not massive either way.  

On the tax credit, it would be OK if the actual tax rate paid by corporations were not so far from the nominal tax rates they would pay without corporate welfare or a million exemptions.  If they dont pay much tax now, it does no good to credit them for hires, and the cost of a very few hires will easily meet the entire tax liability in many cases, since wages in even professional roles don&#039;t often exceed 60% of operating costs, in many cases being far lower (automakers pay around 12% of gross sales in wages). 

No, the only way to drive job growth is to drive the underlying economic activity AND to make sure to the extent possible that rewards are in line with production- when they become uncoupled (as they seem to be right now) you have a very wide gap between well-off and everyone else, and you have imbalances in areas of the economy. 

My suggestion would be to kill the deduction on interest expense and add one for interest income (to encourage savings and careful use of debt), to return to high marginal rates for very high income earners (eases the deficit, does not impact job creation very much, and is not as unfair as it sounds because nobody makes a gazillion dollars without a lot of public spending going on somewhere to create the conditions to make that scratch) 

Beyond all that, we need a moral re-center about pissing money away on stupid shit (to use appropriate language) from McMansions to overpaid sports and media stars, to stuff up and down the spectrum.  

A return to a more egalitarian society is the only way to keep a free-market system from running all the money to one corner of the table.  Maybe a military draft would help..... in any case, thats where the core problems really are.....moral, cultural, political....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raghav, both the tax credit theory and the impact of the minimum wage have been well studied and the consensus points to the opposite of your conclusions.</p>
<p>On the min wage- the findings are that the number of wage earners at that wage is not high, that the market for those type of workers is relativly inelastic, and that the overall economic impact is not material.  The Card and Krueger study is usually the one most often debated in this instance, but even the most anti-minimum wage economists now agree the impact is not massive either way.  </p>
<p>On the tax credit, it would be OK if the actual tax rate paid by corporations were not so far from the nominal tax rates they would pay without corporate welfare or a million exemptions.  If they dont pay much tax now, it does no good to credit them for hires, and the cost of a very few hires will easily meet the entire tax liability in many cases, since wages in even professional roles don&#8217;t often exceed 60% of operating costs, in many cases being far lower (automakers pay around 12% of gross sales in wages). </p>
<p>No, the only way to drive job growth is to drive the underlying economic activity AND to make sure to the extent possible that rewards are in line with production- when they become uncoupled (as they seem to be right now) you have a very wide gap between well-off and everyone else, and you have imbalances in areas of the economy. </p>
<p>My suggestion would be to kill the deduction on interest expense and add one for interest income (to encourage savings and careful use of debt), to return to high marginal rates for very high income earners (eases the deficit, does not impact job creation very much, and is not as unfair as it sounds because nobody makes a gazillion dollars without a lot of public spending going on somewhere to create the conditions to make that scratch) </p>
<p>Beyond all that, we need a moral re-center about pissing money away on stupid shit (to use appropriate language) from McMansions to overpaid sports and media stars, to stuff up and down the spectrum.  </p>
<p>A return to a more egalitarian society is the only way to keep a free-market system from running all the money to one corner of the table.  Maybe a military draft would help&#8230;.. in any case, thats where the core problems really are&#8230;..moral, cultural, political&#8230;.</p>
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