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	<title>Comments on: Why Aren&#8217;t Search Firms Out of Business?</title>
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	<description>Recruiting intelligence. Recruiting community.</description>
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		<title>By: Anil Kumar</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-11659</link>
		<dc:creator>Anil Kumar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-11659</guid>
		<description>The most important thing why search firms will  never go out of business is coz ...they treat their Candidates as their greatest assets.They select what is in best interests of both employer and the candidate.....and the prospects feel free to discuss their concerns with an external recruiter without being criticised.
While the corporate recruiters lose time on filtering irrelevant CV&#039;s received by the company mail-box.... and after selecting few CVs.... try to fill the positions by selecting the cv Which they think is more relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most important thing why search firms will  never go out of business is coz &#8230;they treat their Candidates as their greatest assets.They select what is in best interests of both employer and the candidate&#8230;..and the prospects feel free to discuss their concerns with an external recruiter without being criticised.<br />
While the corporate recruiters lose time on filtering irrelevant CV&#8217;s received by the company mail-box&#8230;. and after selecting few CVs&#8230;. try to fill the positions by selecting the cv Which they think is more relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Halperin</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8700</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Halperin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8700</guid>
		<description>Indeed, this is a well-established psychological principal.
We should remember that much of recruiting is driven by the GAFI Principles:
Greed
Arrogance
Fear
Ignorance

It is best to understand that these principles are often in operation and to use them to create an optimium situation for everyone involved.

Cheers,

Keith Halperin
keithsrj@sbcglobal.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, this is a well-established psychological principal.<br />
We should remember that much of recruiting is driven by the GAFI Principles:<br />
Greed<br />
Arrogance<br />
Fear<br />
Ignorance</p>
<p>It is best to understand that these principles are often in operation and to use them to create an optimium situation for everyone involved.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Keith Halperin<br />
<a href="mailto:keithsrj@sbcglobal.net">keithsrj@sbcglobal.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Anton</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8698</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8698</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget.. we are dealing with executives who sometime believe, quality comes with price. If I found a new Porsche on Ebay for $5k, they would believe it couldn&#039;t be that good. But, if they pay $80K for it, it must be the best. Higher quality is implied. It is up to the internal recruiter to make sure the candidates are truly high quality, and not just a price tag. Internal candidates should be managing the search process when using an outside firm. Just like a &#039;recruited&#039; candidate seems far more attractive then one that was looking for the company. A working candidate, more attractive then one that has a package. Marketing has everything to do with it.. so we need, as internal recruiters, to remember that when making referrals to our hiring managers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget.. we are dealing with executives who sometime believe, quality comes with price. If I found a new Porsche on Ebay for $5k, they would believe it couldn&#8217;t be that good. But, if they pay $80K for it, it must be the best. Higher quality is implied. It is up to the internal recruiter to make sure the candidates are truly high quality, and not just a price tag. Internal candidates should be managing the search process when using an outside firm. Just like a &#8216;recruited&#8217; candidate seems far more attractive then one that was looking for the company. A working candidate, more attractive then one that has a package. Marketing has everything to do with it.. so we need, as internal recruiters, to remember that when making referrals to our hiring managers.</p>
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		<title>By: Sylvia Dahlby</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8679</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvia Dahlby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8679</guid>
		<description>Wow - I finally got through all of this most excellent thread. And I&#039;m surprised I still have an additional .02 to toss into the discussion:

In the 20 yrs that I&#039;ve been in this industry, the demise of Search Firms has been predicted over &amp; over (even before the Internet became a viable recruiting media and the pundits all thought that surely was the death knell for high search fees) ... as if Search Firms are the evil empire that needs to be replaced with better advertising, sourcing, recruiting technology or anything anything to stop hiring managers from paying a fee to a headhunter.

News flash: The more things change, the more they stay the same. 

The mix of tools &amp; resources in the recruiters toolbox will change whether your a third-party recruiter or corporate employer - and you&#039;ll always need the right mix of tools &amp; resources to fill a particular job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; I finally got through all of this most excellent thread. And I&#8217;m surprised I still have an additional .02 to toss into the discussion:</p>
<p>In the 20 yrs that I&#8217;ve been in this industry, the demise of Search Firms has been predicted over &amp; over (even before the Internet became a viable recruiting media and the pundits all thought that surely was the death knell for high search fees) &#8230; as if Search Firms are the evil empire that needs to be replaced with better advertising, sourcing, recruiting technology or anything anything to stop hiring managers from paying a fee to a headhunter.</p>
<p>News flash: The more things change, the more they stay the same. </p>
<p>The mix of tools &amp; resources in the recruiters toolbox will change whether your a third-party recruiter or corporate employer &#8211; and you&#8217;ll always need the right mix of tools &amp; resources to fill a particular job.</p>
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		<title>By: Why Are Search Firms Thriving? &#171; The Staffing Advisor</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8669</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Are Search Firms Thriving? &#171; The Staffing Advisor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8669</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Are Search Firms&#160;Thriving?  Instead of using their internal recruiting capabilities, why are so many executives willing to pay fees to search firms? According to this article, search firms are often able to do things than internal recruiters cannot. Search firms have the luxury of managing the search assignment with a single-minded focus. Similarly, search firms are more able to reconcile the hiring requirement to market realities.  Read more from Harry Griendling&#8217;s provocative blog post. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Are Search Firms&nbsp;Thriving?  Instead of using their internal recruiting capabilities, why are so many executives willing to pay fees to search firms? According to this article, search firms are often able to do things than internal recruiters cannot. Search firms have the luxury of managing the search assignment with a single-minded focus. Similarly, search firms are more able to reconcile the hiring requirement to market realities.  Read more from Harry Griendling&#8217;s provocative blog post. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8484</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8484</guid>
		<description>Some general commments:
There are a ton of marketing agencies supporting sales and marketing departments similarly, this does not mean there is a &quot;replacement&quot; mentality or &quot;we&#039;re better than you&quot; mentality. Many marketing agencies have niche specializations and are very good at what they do within particular industries, so they are utilized for the knowledge they have.  The same principle should apply for recruiting agencies, many of whom are specialized and have  (faster) access to resources, ability to quickly weed out bad apples, and can handle certain process and/or time aspects better. This is where the agency is earning a premium. 
That being said, corporate recruiting departments can do a better job by implementing efficiencies in process and subscribing to training. There are many Talent Executives who still are unaware of Maureen, Shally, and other sources of training that are proven to reduce sourcing time and provide efficiencies in one of the most time consuming areas. However, they continue to invest in technologies that promote some efficiencies - this is a help, but not a means for teaching recruiters to work more efficiently. 
Not all external agencies are good at what they do also, I have encountered some who claim to know passive candidate search and revert to &quot;in box&quot; and &quot;job board&quot; recruiting. Highly transactional firms that are &quot;bodyshops&quot;. In every profession there are the good and the bad. Yes, many internal recruiting departments ARE saddled with administristivia, meetings, politics, and other &quot;things&quot; that get in the way of getting the job done. Also, many smaller companies have limited internal resources and have to outsource... 

The reason why the agency world grew substantially over the last 5+ years is because of the outsourcing trend and benefits to non-organization competency reductions for economies of scale/cost, the entry barriers are so low that any recruiter can start an agency, and tight labor market leading to more &quot;needle in the haystack&quot; and longer search times - better to gain focus thru outsourcing. With declining economic conditions, we will rapidly see that non-profitable or underperforming agencies will disappear, overcapacity will weed out agencies, reduction of internal costs will lead to desire for internal efficiencies, a focus on training and process/workflow efficiency expertise, and an industry repositioning of firms. 

There are big picture drivers for these things...I wouldn&#039;t be over optimistic about agency growth, it is like any other business. Good, strong, effective and performing agencies will always survive and be needed, so will good strong internal corporate recruiting departments proving their value to the management.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some general commments:<br />
There are a ton of marketing agencies supporting sales and marketing departments similarly, this does not mean there is a &#8220;replacement&#8221; mentality or &#8220;we&#8217;re better than you&#8221; mentality. Many marketing agencies have niche specializations and are very good at what they do within particular industries, so they are utilized for the knowledge they have.  The same principle should apply for recruiting agencies, many of whom are specialized and have  (faster) access to resources, ability to quickly weed out bad apples, and can handle certain process and/or time aspects better. This is where the agency is earning a premium.<br />
That being said, corporate recruiting departments can do a better job by implementing efficiencies in process and subscribing to training. There are many Talent Executives who still are unaware of Maureen, Shally, and other sources of training that are proven to reduce sourcing time and provide efficiencies in one of the most time consuming areas. However, they continue to invest in technologies that promote some efficiencies &#8211; this is a help, but not a means for teaching recruiters to work more efficiently.<br />
Not all external agencies are good at what they do also, I have encountered some who claim to know passive candidate search and revert to &#8220;in box&#8221; and &#8220;job board&#8221; recruiting. Highly transactional firms that are &#8220;bodyshops&#8221;. In every profession there are the good and the bad. Yes, many internal recruiting departments ARE saddled with administristivia, meetings, politics, and other &#8220;things&#8221; that get in the way of getting the job done. Also, many smaller companies have limited internal resources and have to outsource&#8230; </p>
<p>The reason why the agency world grew substantially over the last 5+ years is because of the outsourcing trend and benefits to non-organization competency reductions for economies of scale/cost, the entry barriers are so low that any recruiter can start an agency, and tight labor market leading to more &#8220;needle in the haystack&#8221; and longer search times &#8211; better to gain focus thru outsourcing. With declining economic conditions, we will rapidly see that non-profitable or underperforming agencies will disappear, overcapacity will weed out agencies, reduction of internal costs will lead to desire for internal efficiencies, a focus on training and process/workflow efficiency expertise, and an industry repositioning of firms. </p>
<p>There are big picture drivers for these things&#8230;I wouldn&#8217;t be over optimistic about agency growth, it is like any other business. Good, strong, effective and performing agencies will always survive and be needed, so will good strong internal corporate recruiting departments proving their value to the management.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Haynes</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8449</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8449</guid>
		<description>Seems to me from all the comments above that the basic need is for someone to come up with a way to give the internal recruiting department more time.
I think streamlining their sourcing for lower complexity roles would give them time (free capacity) to handle more complex, Sr searches.  
The first way is to stop buying into Niche job boards - fragmenting the e-recruiting world is helping no one in corporate recruiting.  Having to search multiple boards or weed through hundreds of on line applications in an ATS are the two largest time sucks of a corporate recruiter.  Followed closely by all those meetings! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me from all the comments above that the basic need is for someone to come up with a way to give the internal recruiting department more time.<br />
I think streamlining their sourcing for lower complexity roles would give them time (free capacity) to handle more complex, Sr searches.<br />
The first way is to stop buying into Niche job boards &#8211; fragmenting the e-recruiting world is helping no one in corporate recruiting.  Having to search multiple boards or weed through hundreds of on line applications in an ATS are the two largest time sucks of a corporate recruiter.  Followed closely by all those meetings! ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Letourneau</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8425</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Letourneau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8425</guid>
		<description>Darrin, your Exec Search spend reduction is staggering.  Cutting from $2.5M to $14k is nothing short of mind-blowing . . . so much so that it seems like potentially too much of a good thing.

Let me explain: My first job out of the service was as a Buyer for a very large 3rd Party Logistics/Grocery Retailer (I think it was #9 in size at the time).  As a buyer, one of my key KPIs&#039; was &#039;Service Level&#039; (range 0% to 100%).  If I always had enough stock in the distribution center, I wouldn&#039;t have a &#039;lost sale&#039; when one of our stores ordered that product.  So, a &quot;perfect&quot; Service Level was 100%, meaning I always had product in stock when stores ordered it.

However, Service Level wasn&#039;t the whole story.  Anyone who ordered far beyond what was necessary could maintain a 100% service level - but this would later present problems meeting minimum order requirements from vendors down the line.  In a nutshell, if you over-ordered, you could hit that 100%.

Now, there was another counter-balancing metric that was also very important: &#039;Overstock Inventory&#039;.  If you had product sit in the distribution center beyond a given point, it would become &#039;overstock&#039;.  These numbers counted against us as well, so the perfect &#039;Overstock Inventory&#039; number was $0.  As you can see, achieving a 100% Service Level with a $0 Overstock Inventory was virtually impossible.  

Here&#039;s another irony: If you over-ordered, let&#039;s not forget the additional costs.  For example, the truckload would cost more, the handling costs would be higher (to put the product &#039;away&#039;), and the carrying costs would be higher.  So, in the end, you would be operating in the red (or your purchased categories would) for your organization despite meeting a 100% Service Level with $0 Overstock Inventory over the short-run.

This begs the question: Assuming you cut your Exec Search spend to $0, what else gives?  Is this the key metric some Internal Recruiters are using?  What are the ramifications on business performance down the line?  

I ask this because I can think of 2 distinct ways to cut Exec Search spend down to $0 immediately:  

A. Hire 10 More Internal Recruiters (yeah, you&#039;ll cut fees . . . but look at overall cost).  

B. Relax Specifications and Hire All Job-Board Applicants (sure, this will further cut spend . . . but is there a long-term cost to the organization&#039;s performance here?)

Some things for us to think through and discuss . . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darrin, your Exec Search spend reduction is staggering.  Cutting from $2.5M to $14k is nothing short of mind-blowing . . . so much so that it seems like potentially too much of a good thing.</p>
<p>Let me explain: My first job out of the service was as a Buyer for a very large 3rd Party Logistics/Grocery Retailer (I think it was #9 in size at the time).  As a buyer, one of my key KPIs&#8217; was &#8216;Service Level&#8217; (range 0% to 100%).  If I always had enough stock in the distribution center, I wouldn&#8217;t have a &#8216;lost sale&#8217; when one of our stores ordered that product.  So, a &#8220;perfect&#8221; Service Level was 100%, meaning I always had product in stock when stores ordered it.</p>
<p>However, Service Level wasn&#8217;t the whole story.  Anyone who ordered far beyond what was necessary could maintain a 100% service level &#8211; but this would later present problems meeting minimum order requirements from vendors down the line.  In a nutshell, if you over-ordered, you could hit that 100%.</p>
<p>Now, there was another counter-balancing metric that was also very important: &#8216;Overstock Inventory&#8217;.  If you had product sit in the distribution center beyond a given point, it would become &#8216;overstock&#8217;.  These numbers counted against us as well, so the perfect &#8216;Overstock Inventory&#8217; number was $0.  As you can see, achieving a 100% Service Level with a $0 Overstock Inventory was virtually impossible.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another irony: If you over-ordered, let&#8217;s not forget the additional costs.  For example, the truckload would cost more, the handling costs would be higher (to put the product &#8216;away&#8217;), and the carrying costs would be higher.  So, in the end, you would be operating in the red (or your purchased categories would) for your organization despite meeting a 100% Service Level with $0 Overstock Inventory over the short-run.</p>
<p>This begs the question: Assuming you cut your Exec Search spend to $0, what else gives?  Is this the key metric some Internal Recruiters are using?  What are the ramifications on business performance down the line?  </p>
<p>I ask this because I can think of 2 distinct ways to cut Exec Search spend down to $0 immediately:  </p>
<p>A. Hire 10 More Internal Recruiters (yeah, you&#8217;ll cut fees . . . but look at overall cost).  </p>
<p>B. Relax Specifications and Hire All Job-Board Applicants (sure, this will further cut spend . . . but is there a long-term cost to the organization&#8217;s performance here?)</p>
<p>Some things for us to think through and discuss . . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Darrin Grella</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8422</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrin Grella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8422</guid>
		<description>Sweet article.  I happen to be a recovering Agency Recruiter.  I currently work as an internal recruiter and have to say that your info is dead on point.  I think the majority (not all) of Corporate Recruiters are less than good.  Our corporation is unique as I have been given liberty to implement an agency environment under the corporate umbrella.  
We reduced 3rd party agency fees from 2.5MM to 14,000 in 2 years.  However we have just signed up for a retained search firm for an executive.  The only reason is due to time.  Just like what Karen Price mentioned above. We are all strapped for time and do not have the appropriate amount of time to dedicate to this important need. Even though we are more than capable of doing it, it is a different type of approach.  
Internal and External recruiters are at each others throats because internal teams feel threatened by the effectivness of an agency recruiter.  Sorry but true.
Excellent article Harry.

Darrin Grella
darrin.grella@brulant.com
www.darringrella.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sweet article.  I happen to be a recovering Agency Recruiter.  I currently work as an internal recruiter and have to say that your info is dead on point.  I think the majority (not all) of Corporate Recruiters are less than good.  Our corporation is unique as I have been given liberty to implement an agency environment under the corporate umbrella.<br />
We reduced 3rd party agency fees from 2.5MM to 14,000 in 2 years.  However we have just signed up for a retained search firm for an executive.  The only reason is due to time.  Just like what Karen Price mentioned above. We are all strapped for time and do not have the appropriate amount of time to dedicate to this important need. Even though we are more than capable of doing it, it is a different type of approach.<br />
Internal and External recruiters are at each others throats because internal teams feel threatened by the effectivness of an agency recruiter.  Sorry but true.<br />
Excellent article Harry.</p>
<p>Darrin Grella<br />
<a href="mailto:darrin.grella@brulant.com">darrin.grella@brulant.com</a><br />
<a href="http://www.darringrella.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.darringrella.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: eric burton</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8405</link>
		<dc:creator>eric burton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 02:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8405</guid>
		<description>There are some very spot on points made by both corporate &amp; TPR&#039;s.  Corporate Recruiting leaders know the value of partnering with a strong TPR.  

I think the biggest difference is not about the competencies of Corporate Recruiters vs. TPR&#039;s, but more about the best use of time.  I can only speak for my current recruiting team, but an average recruiter on my team will place 120 new hires at an average salary of $100K/hire  - THAT WOULD BE $3M IN ANNUAL BILLINGS (Based upon 25% placement fee).  I think that would make her a Top Biller in most TPR&#039;s.  TO pull this individual off of her normal work load to work 1 high level req would be at the detriment of 4 different multi-billion dollar projects.  

The smart business decision is to utilize outside firms for these higher paying reqs that also have a long recruiting cycle. 

And of course there are some key hires that require the secrecy that can only be provided by an outside agency.

I would hope that more &amp; more TPR&#039;s realize that not every Corporate Recruiter is incompetent and that Corporate Recruiters realize the value that some TPR&#039;s can bring them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some very spot on points made by both corporate &amp; TPR&#8217;s.  Corporate Recruiting leaders know the value of partnering with a strong TPR.  </p>
<p>I think the biggest difference is not about the competencies of Corporate Recruiters vs. TPR&#8217;s, but more about the best use of time.  I can only speak for my current recruiting team, but an average recruiter on my team will place 120 new hires at an average salary of $100K/hire  &#8211; THAT WOULD BE $3M IN ANNUAL BILLINGS (Based upon 25% placement fee).  I think that would make her a Top Biller in most TPR&#8217;s.  TO pull this individual off of her normal work load to work 1 high level req would be at the detriment of 4 different multi-billion dollar projects.  </p>
<p>The smart business decision is to utilize outside firms for these higher paying reqs that also have a long recruiting cycle. </p>
<p>And of course there are some key hires that require the secrecy that can only be provided by an outside agency.</p>
<p>I would hope that more &amp; more TPR&#8217;s realize that not every Corporate Recruiter is incompetent and that Corporate Recruiters realize the value that some TPR&#8217;s can bring them.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Whitfield</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8404</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Whitfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 22:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8404</guid>
		<description>15 years ago it seemed that many of the internal recruiters didn&#039;t actually get to do much recruiting.  They often times were also in HR/Benefits and were still doing those functions while asked to also find candidates for 20 simultaneous reqs.  No wonder they had a hard time.  

Most of the internal teams I work with these days are quite good at recruiting.  Just no doubt about it.  Many of them are long term recruiters who have worked in agencies and/or other high volume type environments and definitely know what they are doing.    

Smart companies use external recruiters for specialty/difficult roles, critical positions,  out of the necessity of the volumes of people they need, or because they want the best possible candidate regardless of source (sometimes the managers (and CEO) and HR have a different view on that part).  That doesn&#039;t make their own internal staff any less qualified.   The economic value of hiring the best vs. even the second best or leaving a position unfilled can be huge sometimes - which is why the fee may not matter to them.  

Any 3rd party firm firm that takes an &#039;us vs. them&#039; attitude just isn&#039;t going to have as much success as a firm that truly acts as a team / extension of their customer&#039;s internal staff.  

Staffing firms aren&#039;t going away.  Good ones that understand it isn&#039;t &#039;us vs them&#039; won&#039;t anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>15 years ago it seemed that many of the internal recruiters didn&#8217;t actually get to do much recruiting.  They often times were also in HR/Benefits and were still doing those functions while asked to also find candidates for 20 simultaneous reqs.  No wonder they had a hard time.  </p>
<p>Most of the internal teams I work with these days are quite good at recruiting.  Just no doubt about it.  Many of them are long term recruiters who have worked in agencies and/or other high volume type environments and definitely know what they are doing.    </p>
<p>Smart companies use external recruiters for specialty/difficult roles, critical positions,  out of the necessity of the volumes of people they need, or because they want the best possible candidate regardless of source (sometimes the managers (and CEO) and HR have a different view on that part).  That doesn&#8217;t make their own internal staff any less qualified.   The economic value of hiring the best vs. even the second best or leaving a position unfilled can be huge sometimes &#8211; which is why the fee may not matter to them.  </p>
<p>Any 3rd party firm firm that takes an &#8216;us vs. them&#8217; attitude just isn&#8217;t going to have as much success as a firm that truly acts as a team / extension of their customer&#8217;s internal staff.  </p>
<p>Staffing firms aren&#8217;t going away.  Good ones that understand it isn&#8217;t &#8216;us vs them&#8217; won&#8217;t anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Letourneau</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8403</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Letourneau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8403</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been watching the responses to this article come pouring into my inbox and it&#039;s been quite interesting.  Over the years, I&#039;ve seen similar responses each time someone writes an article from a 3rd Party recruitment perspective.  And to offer balance, the same dynamics are at play each time someone in HR writes about hiring processes.

So here&#039;s the irony: Many chalk these articles up to an &quot;us versus them&quot; philosophy, yet its articles like these that drive progress in the first place.  Some internal recruiters may take Harry&#039;s suggestions defensively, while some will work to implement one or two.  Some may even get angry, yet still implement a recommendation.  As a result, however, the situation will improve.  Again, to add balance, the truth is that many Exec Recruiters do not understand the full scope of activities the average Internal Recruiter must perform.  Often times, the organization gets in its own way, and no, it&#039;s not the Internal Recruiter&#039;s fault.  For the TPR, we can wash our hands and walk away, but the Internal Recruiter must fit into the current structure, yet slowly instigate change . . . and let&#039;s be honest: Some don&#039;t want to change.  Truly, each side has its own unique challenges.

At the end of the day, however, look at the progress being made.  It&#039;s about more than educational levels of the Internal Recruiters, and it&#039;s about more than having prior agency recruiters on staff in internal capacity.  Everybody here knows that the typical exec search process is not only not necessary, but not feasible, for all roles.  Would we want our middle-of-the-road positions that don&#039;t equate much value to the bottom line to be handled in the same as a VP?  Of course not.

In my estimation, progress is being driven by pain.  We can do better; we can think on a higher level.  I believe we&#039;re doing that.  Sure, maybe there are fruits tossed at each side during the conversation . . . but we&#039;re all better for it.  I mean, what fun is it to have a bunch of Stepford Wives that agree on every recruiting subject out there?  Would that lead to progress?  No way . . . so let&#039;s have some fun, debate vigorously, and then shake hands and enjoy a drink afterward :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been watching the responses to this article come pouring into my inbox and it&#8217;s been quite interesting.  Over the years, I&#8217;ve seen similar responses each time someone writes an article from a 3rd Party recruitment perspective.  And to offer balance, the same dynamics are at play each time someone in HR writes about hiring processes.</p>
<p>So here&#8217;s the irony: Many chalk these articles up to an &#8220;us versus them&#8221; philosophy, yet its articles like these that drive progress in the first place.  Some internal recruiters may take Harry&#8217;s suggestions defensively, while some will work to implement one or two.  Some may even get angry, yet still implement a recommendation.  As a result, however, the situation will improve.  Again, to add balance, the truth is that many Exec Recruiters do not understand the full scope of activities the average Internal Recruiter must perform.  Often times, the organization gets in its own way, and no, it&#8217;s not the Internal Recruiter&#8217;s fault.  For the TPR, we can wash our hands and walk away, but the Internal Recruiter must fit into the current structure, yet slowly instigate change . . . and let&#8217;s be honest: Some don&#8217;t want to change.  Truly, each side has its own unique challenges.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, however, look at the progress being made.  It&#8217;s about more than educational levels of the Internal Recruiters, and it&#8217;s about more than having prior agency recruiters on staff in internal capacity.  Everybody here knows that the typical exec search process is not only not necessary, but not feasible, for all roles.  Would we want our middle-of-the-road positions that don&#8217;t equate much value to the bottom line to be handled in the same as a VP?  Of course not.</p>
<p>In my estimation, progress is being driven by pain.  We can do better; we can think on a higher level.  I believe we&#8217;re doing that.  Sure, maybe there are fruits tossed at each side during the conversation . . . but we&#8217;re all better for it.  I mean, what fun is it to have a bunch of Stepford Wives that agree on every recruiting subject out there?  Would that lead to progress?  No way . . . so let&#8217;s have some fun, debate vigorously, and then shake hands and enjoy a drink afterward :)</p>
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		<title>By: Brenden Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8402</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenden Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8402</guid>
		<description>As someone who has worked on both sides of the issue, both points of view have some validity. However, I think it&#039;s important for those who chose to work on the third-party side of things to understand that over the past few years, the HR profession has been elevated within many organizations. In fact, many internal recruiters who work &quot;in-house&quot; bring with them years of agency experience to leverage internally. Many have advanced education. Many corporate talent managers are connected to the strategic pulse of the organization and have a seat at the table in the C-Suite. Many have an incredible amount of influence regarding what firms to hire if such a decision is made. In addition, responsible corporate leadership won&#039;t arbitrarily agree (unless they themselves are incompetent) to pay the fees you describe without assessing their internal capability first, effectively managing costs, measuring benefit, and making an informed decision about how to proceed. There are many situations where searches can and should be outsourced. But the assumption you make that outsourcing decisions are made because service is better or third-party recruiters are more competent in defining talent objectives and managing projects is, well, misguided. Unfortunately, I read this an another &quot;us versus them&quot; article that we could all do without.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who has worked on both sides of the issue, both points of view have some validity. However, I think it&#8217;s important for those who chose to work on the third-party side of things to understand that over the past few years, the HR profession has been elevated within many organizations. In fact, many internal recruiters who work &#8220;in-house&#8221; bring with them years of agency experience to leverage internally. Many have advanced education. Many corporate talent managers are connected to the strategic pulse of the organization and have a seat at the table in the C-Suite. Many have an incredible amount of influence regarding what firms to hire if such a decision is made. In addition, responsible corporate leadership won&#8217;t arbitrarily agree (unless they themselves are incompetent) to pay the fees you describe without assessing their internal capability first, effectively managing costs, measuring benefit, and making an informed decision about how to proceed. There are many situations where searches can and should be outsourced. But the assumption you make that outsourcing decisions are made because service is better or third-party recruiters are more competent in defining talent objectives and managing projects is, well, misguided. Unfortunately, I read this an another &#8220;us versus them&#8221; article that we could all do without.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8399</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:18:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8399</guid>
		<description>I have been both (actually all 3 an inhouse contractor)
Internal recruiters do more about the hiring process. Consensus building running interviews etc.. Just as externals must sell the candidate on a company, internals sell the company on the candidate. I have done all 3 and I like the hybrid where I can take my time and do it right as oppose to the first in and not always hire the best candidate.
3rd party has a needed place for the unique left handed blond plumber I&#039;ll need once they are more efficient.

But the harassing calls to passive employees makes the industry look unprofessional. But it shouldn&#039;t be us VS,. them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been both (actually all 3 an inhouse contractor)<br />
Internal recruiters do more about the hiring process. Consensus building running interviews etc.. Just as externals must sell the candidate on a company, internals sell the company on the candidate. I have done all 3 and I like the hybrid where I can take my time and do it right as oppose to the first in and not always hire the best candidate.<br />
3rd party has a needed place for the unique left handed blond plumber I&#8217;ll need once they are more efficient.</p>
<p>But the harassing calls to passive employees makes the industry look unprofessional. But it shouldn&#8217;t be us VS,. them</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Halperin</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8394</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Halperin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8394</guid>
		<description>Interesting article. Let&#039;s put this false issue to rest: ALL kinds of recruiters are necessary. 

I occasionally ask a potential client to determine what type of recruiter they need:
1) They are successfully meeting their needs - they should stay with internal recruiters/ resources.

2) They need one or two people that can&#039;t cost-effectively be obtained through, or are extremely specialized, or are needed very quickly- use an external contingency or retained recruiter.

3) They have a period of ramp up in hiring, followed by a plateau- use a contract recruiter.

What clients SHOULDN’T do is to hire internal onsite recruiting staff to do anything that can be cost-effectively, eliminated, automated, or outsourced. This would have the added advantage of allowing the recruiting to staff to concentrate on higher-value functions such as have been mentioned in the article and commentaries. 

Keith Halperin keithsrj@sbcglobal.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article. Let&#8217;s put this false issue to rest: ALL kinds of recruiters are necessary. </p>
<p>I occasionally ask a potential client to determine what type of recruiter they need:<br />
1) They are successfully meeting their needs &#8211; they should stay with internal recruiters/ resources.</p>
<p>2) They need one or two people that can&#8217;t cost-effectively be obtained through, or are extremely specialized, or are needed very quickly- use an external contingency or retained recruiter.</p>
<p>3) They have a period of ramp up in hiring, followed by a plateau- use a contract recruiter.</p>
<p>What clients SHOULDN’T do is to hire internal onsite recruiting staff to do anything that can be cost-effectively, eliminated, automated, or outsourced. This would have the added advantage of allowing the recruiting to staff to concentrate on higher-value functions such as have been mentioned in the article and commentaries. </p>
<p>Keith Halperin <a href="mailto:keithsrj@sbcglobal.net">keithsrj@sbcglobal.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: Candice Conerly</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8392</link>
		<dc:creator>Candice Conerly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8392</guid>
		<description>Good Topic!  Although I think it represents the &quot;good&quot; about the agency world, and does not talk about the &quot;the bad and the ugly&quot; it gave me some good insight as to how hiring managers view internal and external recruiters. 

As a Corporate Recruiter I see value in additional resources when needed and I appreciate those firms who truly represent our core values and respect all stakeholders in the hiring process.  

Now with that said, what is not mentioned is the clean up involved on the Corporate Recruiter side as a result of the &quot;bad and ugly&quot; part.  This includes multiple calls multiple times from agencies to hiring managers and myself, misquotes of salaries and benefits to potential candidates, or worse inaccurate details of the job.  More times than not the due diligence part is glazed over.  

My focus as a Corporate Recruiter is to bring on great talent while upholding the highest level of integrity.  This means meeting the needs of the company, the candidate and our managers.  In my opinion, no one can speak more true to this, I should know, I work here (:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Topic!  Although I think it represents the &#8220;good&#8221; about the agency world, and does not talk about the &#8220;the bad and the ugly&#8221; it gave me some good insight as to how hiring managers view internal and external recruiters. </p>
<p>As a Corporate Recruiter I see value in additional resources when needed and I appreciate those firms who truly represent our core values and respect all stakeholders in the hiring process.  </p>
<p>Now with that said, what is not mentioned is the clean up involved on the Corporate Recruiter side as a result of the &#8220;bad and ugly&#8221; part.  This includes multiple calls multiple times from agencies to hiring managers and myself, misquotes of salaries and benefits to potential candidates, or worse inaccurate details of the job.  More times than not the due diligence part is glazed over.  </p>
<p>My focus as a Corporate Recruiter is to bring on great talent while upholding the highest level of integrity.  This means meeting the needs of the company, the candidate and our managers.  In my opinion, no one can speak more true to this, I should know, I work here (:</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Snyder</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8390</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Snyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8390</guid>
		<description>Apples to Oranges: Staffing is a basic economic activity. 

Net staffing activity overall dwarfs the net activity of executive search, as Karen ably points out. 

The mismatch in dollar value gives exeutive search more visibility, but it&#039;s still a small niche in the great scheme.  

Leif hits a key point directly; the greater the value of the talent involved, the more political the situation becomes.  

Again to answer the original question; firms exist somewhat to buffer the politics (war by other means) of talent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apples to Oranges: Staffing is a basic economic activity. </p>
<p>Net staffing activity overall dwarfs the net activity of executive search, as Karen ably points out. </p>
<p>The mismatch in dollar value gives exeutive search more visibility, but it&#8217;s still a small niche in the great scheme.  </p>
<p>Leif hits a key point directly; the greater the value of the talent involved, the more political the situation becomes.  </p>
<p>Again to answer the original question; firms exist somewhat to buffer the politics (war by other means) of talent.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Wennerstrom</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8387</link>
		<dc:creator>Leif Wennerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8387</guid>
		<description>I also managed two executive searches - one with with Korn Ferry and another with Heidrick. One internal executive told me flat out that the top talent typically accepts calls only from the big search firms and that he was fine with the fee because of the certainty of getting the best person. Like the Big 4, Sr. Executives rely on any 3rd party consultant for big strategic decisions. The reality of both searches was that we hired people who had been in contact with my recruiting team for over two years. The bigger question was weather we could have landed these executives without the help of the third party..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also managed two executive searches &#8211; one with with Korn Ferry and another with Heidrick. One internal executive told me flat out that the top talent typically accepts calls only from the big search firms and that he was fine with the fee because of the certainty of getting the best person. Like the Big 4, Sr. Executives rely on any 3rd party consultant for big strategic decisions. The reality of both searches was that we hired people who had been in contact with my recruiting team for over two years. The bigger question was weather we could have landed these executives without the help of the third party..</p>
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		<title>By: MG Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8386</link>
		<dc:creator>MG Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8386</guid>
		<description>Harry,

You do have some good points, but I can identify with what karen is saying as well.  Having been in a Fortune Five recruiting department working with over 100 requisitions from hiring managers who:

* thought their requisition was the only one we had
* had no clue about job descriptions and KSA&#039;s
* could not make up their minds from candidate to candidate about that they truly wanted for the position 
* could not seem to make room on their calendars to interview
* changed the requirements of the job during the interviews with a candidate
* had no idea what EEOC and legal interviewing processes are
* made up their own salary offers because they really &quot;liked the candidate&quot;

At the end of the day, my team was evaluated on how long it took us to complete the hiring process.  This was, of course, with no control over the hiring managers or the process.

On the other side of the desk, having been an executive recruiter, I have worked with some interesting internal recruiters who started out as an administrative assistant and was promoted based on skills required for the old job.  These were not &quot;bad&quot; recruiters, but rather people who had been placed in a role with little or no training or support.  

Finally, in an internal situation, recruiters are pulled away from their recruiting projects to perform so many other roles that sometimes things fall between the cracks.

The bottom line is we are all in field of recruiting because we care and we want to have success.  In my business, I go into companies and help them understand the role of the recruiter and provide training to those folks who are trying so hard, but are swimming in a muddy river.

Let&#039;s all help one another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry,</p>
<p>You do have some good points, but I can identify with what karen is saying as well.  Having been in a Fortune Five recruiting department working with over 100 requisitions from hiring managers who:</p>
<p>* thought their requisition was the only one we had<br />
* had no clue about job descriptions and KSA&#8217;s<br />
* could not make up their minds from candidate to candidate about that they truly wanted for the position<br />
* could not seem to make room on their calendars to interview<br />
* changed the requirements of the job during the interviews with a candidate<br />
* had no idea what EEOC and legal interviewing processes are<br />
* made up their own salary offers because they really &#8220;liked the candidate&#8221;</p>
<p>At the end of the day, my team was evaluated on how long it took us to complete the hiring process.  This was, of course, with no control over the hiring managers or the process.</p>
<p>On the other side of the desk, having been an executive recruiter, I have worked with some interesting internal recruiters who started out as an administrative assistant and was promoted based on skills required for the old job.  These were not &#8220;bad&#8221; recruiters, but rather people who had been placed in a role with little or no training or support.  </p>
<p>Finally, in an internal situation, recruiters are pulled away from their recruiting projects to perform so many other roles that sometimes things fall between the cracks.</p>
<p>The bottom line is we are all in field of recruiting because we care and we want to have success.  In my business, I go into companies and help them understand the role of the recruiter and provide training to those folks who are trying so hard, but are swimming in a muddy river.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s all help one another.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Mulhearn</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/11/04/why-arent-search-firms-out-of-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8383</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Mulhearn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/?p=4545#comment-8383</guid>
		<description>To support Karen&#039;s point, effective external recruiters should be business partners with their clients, not competitors.  I also strongly agree that internal recruiters get a bad rap. Even though our firm is an external reruiting firm, I am continually impressed by the variety of functions internal recruiters have to perform and how well most of them perform them.

It seems that the difference is that external recruiters have the ability to perform on a project basis, while most internal recruiters are tied, by the nature of the position, to a process basis.  We external recruiters can focus our whole attention on completing the search, while internal folks have a lot more varied things to be responsible for.

And when you need us, we will be there to help.  Isn&#039;t that what business partners do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To support Karen&#8217;s point, effective external recruiters should be business partners with their clients, not competitors.  I also strongly agree that internal recruiters get a bad rap. Even though our firm is an external reruiting firm, I am continually impressed by the variety of functions internal recruiters have to perform and how well most of them perform them.</p>
<p>It seems that the difference is that external recruiters have the ability to perform on a project basis, while most internal recruiters are tied, by the nature of the position, to a process basis.  We external recruiters can focus our whole attention on completing the search, while internal folks have a lot more varied things to be responsible for.</p>
<p>And when you need us, we will be there to help.  Isn&#8217;t that what business partners do?</p>
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