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	<title>Comments on: Thanks for Stopping By Recruiting; Won&#8217;t You Stay a While?</title>
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		<title>By: Ronald Katz</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/03/12/thanks-for-stopping-by-recruiting-wont-you-stay-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-3555</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald Katz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2008/03/12/thanks-for-stopping-by-recruiting-wont-you-stay-a-while/#comment-3555</guid>
		<description>Thank you Lisa for your wonderful article and even more for your specific and concrete suggestions.  Recruiting has long been the &#039;Rodney Dangerfield&#039; of HR, getting little or no respect.  I always heard that recruiting was &#039;entry level HR&#039; inferring that anyone can do it, merely as a way station to a more rewarding career.  But few people have a greater impact on an organization than the people responsible for finding the next generation of leaders for an organization.  And there is a body of knowledge to be mastered as well as skills to be developed to insure that we are completing our role effectively.

Thank you for reminding us of the critical role recruiters have in an organization.  Staffing professionals, hold your heads high!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Lisa for your wonderful article and even more for your specific and concrete suggestions.  Recruiting has long been the &#8216;Rodney Dangerfield&#8217; of HR, getting little or no respect.  I always heard that recruiting was &#8216;entry level HR&#8217; inferring that anyone can do it, merely as a way station to a more rewarding career.  But few people have a greater impact on an organization than the people responsible for finding the next generation of leaders for an organization.  And there is a body of knowledge to be mastered as well as skills to be developed to insure that we are completing our role effectively.</p>
<p>Thank you for reminding us of the critical role recruiters have in an organization.  Staffing professionals, hold your heads high!</p>
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		<title>By: Payne Broome</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/03/12/thanks-for-stopping-by-recruiting-wont-you-stay-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-3554</link>
		<dc:creator>Payne Broome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2008/03/12/thanks-for-stopping-by-recruiting-wont-you-stay-a-while/#comment-3554</guid>
		<description>Lisa -

Thank you for writing such a great article.  I never thought that I would still be recruiting after 11 years, but here I sit today at my desk reading your article.

I think that you have made some really good points.  I recently started my own firm, and a couple of your points are pillars of my personal philosophy.  I thought that I would offer my comments on each of your points.

For Example:

1.  My last company paid a salary that was below market rate, and they would basically hire anyone who would say yes.  We were rarely able to attract anyone with experience, and our turnover was staggering.  This was a tremendous burden to recruiters like myself who were the top producers in the company, because we spend so much of &#039;our&#039; time developing recruiters and account managers who would not stay onboard long enough to be a positive investment.

2.  I agree with you here as well.  My last company was led by an executive team who trained new associates.  The problem was that these executives had never worked a desk themselves.  They could tell you all about theory, but if you asked them a specific &#039;real life&#039; scenario, they would often give answers that most of the top producing account managers and recruiters would disagree with.  Experience helps you to make better decisions, and those who train new associates need to be successful desk performers who can share relevent and valuable insight.

3.  I have never worked for a company that offered to pay for training.  If you are not investing in your producers then they might not be growing their skillset.  I started my last job 5 years ago this month.  I learned absolutely nothing while employed with that company.  We did not network, we did not embrace technology, we did not develop our skills.  I am a bit embarassed by the fact that I bought into all of that.  Now I am playing catch up, and I thought that I was on the cutting edge all of this time.  I was when I started in that position, but a lot has changed over the past five years, and I missed all of it, because I worked for a company that didn&#039;t see education as valuable.  If you count rehashing new hire training over and over again in weekly meetings my former company would have earned a grade of A+.  Was this training useful and relevent?  Absolutely Not.

4.  I have been fortunate in the fact that I have worked for companies that have allowed me to perform my job in an ethical and professional manner without pressuring me to work in an unethical way.  Customers who buy from you again and again are of great value.  Likewise, consultants who stay with you are in the same boat.  As much as I might not want to admit it as the founder of my company, I know that my recruiters and account managers will be building their brand as much as mine.  When things are great, their brand is out in front and praised (rightly so).  When things are not so great, my company brand will be out front (arguably rightly so, but why not the recruiter).  If clients have a good experience they will follow the recruiter.  If they have a bad experience they will sometimes never work with the company again, regardless of whether the recruiter is there or not.  This is in my opinion why it is so important to hire recruiters who will do the best job possible.

5.  Isn&#039;t it amazing how social networking has evolved?

6.  This is a big one.  No matter how much we know as professionals there is always something that we can learn. My comment is a bit of a reversal of the traditional learning process.

I have found that I have learned a great deal from new associates who ask questions about efficiency.  New people often see improvements that more expreienced recruiters miss because once you get into the habit of doing things a certain way, you are not always looking to make changes.  New associates often analyze the process and as part of that analysis have suggestions about how the process can be improved.

It&#039;s just important to encourage these associates to ask questions about the process and why things are done a certain way.  Most training involves the mindset of &#039;this is how we do things&#039;

I commend the new assocaites who have the courage to suggest change, and change can sometimes pay off for everyone.


7.  In my last position I experienced this first had.  My former company doesn&#039;t pay their recruiters right, offers no development, rarely rewards them at all let alone heartily for their results and contributions, and almost always loses great people in the end to other opportunities.

I was part of a team of ten (sometimes more) account managers in my last position, and it was my company&#039;s &#039;policy&#039; not to give raises, even though everyone didn&#039;t make the same salary.  I made a higher base than others who started before me, and newer employees who never produced a dime in revenue for the company made more than me...

The bottom line is that I was the very top producer on my team for 3+ years, and I worked for a company that would not pay me more than the below margin salary that I earned.

With commissions I did earn six figures in this position. Some people would say, &#039;you had a six figure job you have no reason to complain&#039; and I admit that is an arguable point.

For me it was an issue of respect and acknowledgement.  I was billing 2M+ per year placing contractors, and other associates who were new to the company were making a higher base.  This isn&#039;t how you treat the people who are paying for their seats.

I maintained the status of top producer in my department but my feelings toward the company and management deteriorated over time.  Regardless of what they earn, top producers need to be rewarded.  I have been gone from my company for about four months now, and a good portion of that revenue that I brought in for them is gone too.  It&#039;s really quite sad.

Again, thank you for such a great article, and I do apologize to all of you (if any) who have read this far, as I had a lot to say this morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa -</p>
<p>Thank you for writing such a great article.  I never thought that I would still be recruiting after 11 years, but here I sit today at my desk reading your article.</p>
<p>I think that you have made some really good points.  I recently started my own firm, and a couple of your points are pillars of my personal philosophy.  I thought that I would offer my comments on each of your points.</p>
<p>For Example:</p>
<p>1.  My last company paid a salary that was below market rate, and they would basically hire anyone who would say yes.  We were rarely able to attract anyone with experience, and our turnover was staggering.  This was a tremendous burden to recruiters like myself who were the top producers in the company, because we spend so much of &#8216;our&#8217; time developing recruiters and account managers who would not stay onboard long enough to be a positive investment.</p>
<p>2.  I agree with you here as well.  My last company was led by an executive team who trained new associates.  The problem was that these executives had never worked a desk themselves.  They could tell you all about theory, but if you asked them a specific &#8216;real life&#8217; scenario, they would often give answers that most of the top producing account managers and recruiters would disagree with.  Experience helps you to make better decisions, and those who train new associates need to be successful desk performers who can share relevent and valuable insight.</p>
<p>3.  I have never worked for a company that offered to pay for training.  If you are not investing in your producers then they might not be growing their skillset.  I started my last job 5 years ago this month.  I learned absolutely nothing while employed with that company.  We did not network, we did not embrace technology, we did not develop our skills.  I am a bit embarassed by the fact that I bought into all of that.  Now I am playing catch up, and I thought that I was on the cutting edge all of this time.  I was when I started in that position, but a lot has changed over the past five years, and I missed all of it, because I worked for a company that didn&#8217;t see education as valuable.  If you count rehashing new hire training over and over again in weekly meetings my former company would have earned a grade of A+.  Was this training useful and relevent?  Absolutely Not.</p>
<p>4.  I have been fortunate in the fact that I have worked for companies that have allowed me to perform my job in an ethical and professional manner without pressuring me to work in an unethical way.  Customers who buy from you again and again are of great value.  Likewise, consultants who stay with you are in the same boat.  As much as I might not want to admit it as the founder of my company, I know that my recruiters and account managers will be building their brand as much as mine.  When things are great, their brand is out in front and praised (rightly so).  When things are not so great, my company brand will be out front (arguably rightly so, but why not the recruiter).  If clients have a good experience they will follow the recruiter.  If they have a bad experience they will sometimes never work with the company again, regardless of whether the recruiter is there or not.  This is in my opinion why it is so important to hire recruiters who will do the best job possible.</p>
<p>5.  Isn&#8217;t it amazing how social networking has evolved?</p>
<p>6.  This is a big one.  No matter how much we know as professionals there is always something that we can learn. My comment is a bit of a reversal of the traditional learning process.</p>
<p>I have found that I have learned a great deal from new associates who ask questions about efficiency.  New people often see improvements that more expreienced recruiters miss because once you get into the habit of doing things a certain way, you are not always looking to make changes.  New associates often analyze the process and as part of that analysis have suggestions about how the process can be improved.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just important to encourage these associates to ask questions about the process and why things are done a certain way.  Most training involves the mindset of &#8216;this is how we do things&#8217;</p>
<p>I commend the new assocaites who have the courage to suggest change, and change can sometimes pay off for everyone.</p>
<p>7.  In my last position I experienced this first had.  My former company doesn&#8217;t pay their recruiters right, offers no development, rarely rewards them at all let alone heartily for their results and contributions, and almost always loses great people in the end to other opportunities.</p>
<p>I was part of a team of ten (sometimes more) account managers in my last position, and it was my company&#8217;s &#8216;policy&#8217; not to give raises, even though everyone didn&#8217;t make the same salary.  I made a higher base than others who started before me, and newer employees who never produced a dime in revenue for the company made more than me&#8230;</p>
<p>The bottom line is that I was the very top producer on my team for 3+ years, and I worked for a company that would not pay me more than the below margin salary that I earned.</p>
<p>With commissions I did earn six figures in this position. Some people would say, &#8216;you had a six figure job you have no reason to complain&#8217; and I admit that is an arguable point.</p>
<p>For me it was an issue of respect and acknowledgement.  I was billing 2M+ per year placing contractors, and other associates who were new to the company were making a higher base.  This isn&#8217;t how you treat the people who are paying for their seats.</p>
<p>I maintained the status of top producer in my department but my feelings toward the company and management deteriorated over time.  Regardless of what they earn, top producers need to be rewarded.  I have been gone from my company for about four months now, and a good portion of that revenue that I brought in for them is gone too.  It&#8217;s really quite sad.</p>
<p>Again, thank you for such a great article, and I do apologize to all of you (if any) who have read this far, as I had a lot to say this morning.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Eskridge, CTS, CPC, PRC, CSP, CERS</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2008/03/12/thanks-for-stopping-by-recruiting-wont-you-stay-a-while/comment-page-1/#comment-3552</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Eskridge, CTS, CPC, PRC, CSP, CERS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2008/03/12/thanks-for-stopping-by-recruiting-wont-you-stay-a-while/#comment-3552</guid>
		<description>Lisa,

GREAT article!  I was one of those who was asked if I ever thought of being a recruiter while I was being interviewed years ago.  I took the jump and have never regretted it.  This is a wonderful profession.  I, too, am a big proponent of getting certifications.  One source you did not mention was the national Association of personnel Services (www.recruitinglife.com)  They provide certifications for permanent staffing (CPC), temporary staffing (CTS) and specialized staffing such as Physician Recruiting (PRC) and Employee Retention (CERS).  I would encourage all your readers to look into these certifications.  

Sincerely,

Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa,</p>
<p>GREAT article!  I was one of those who was asked if I ever thought of being a recruiter while I was being interviewed years ago.  I took the jump and have never regretted it.  This is a wonderful profession.  I, too, am a big proponent of getting certifications.  One source you did not mention was the national Association of personnel Services (www.recruitinglife.com)  They provide certifications for permanent staffing (CPC), temporary staffing (CTS) and specialized staffing such as Physician Recruiting (PRC) and Employee Retention (CERS).  I would encourage all your readers to look into these certifications.  </p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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