I will address this but please understand, that though I am not a lawyer the information that I do disclose has been heavily researched. The EEOC, FTC and other Agency?s are always willing to discuss these details as well ? even allowing callers to remain anonymous.

So I will Not give an in depth review of the law as the information can be found easily on the internet but please note that it can mean as much as illegally securing marketing plans, customer lists, product information and any company sensitive data including employee lists and names.

Allen, Michael is correct. Ruse Calling or lying to gain information about companies is indeed illegal in this country ? it falls under Federal Law via the Federal Trade commission ? Antitrust, unfair competition, trade secrets, and of course and the Uniform Code Acts of many states (which ever is most stringent will supersede) ? The laws are in place to give the steps that an employer can take to prevent an unauthorized disclosure, and the remedies available in the event of an unauthorized disclosure

Colorado for example recently rewrote their act to remove any ambiguity from the Federal law. It also mentions Fraud and Deceit in trying to gain access to this information… The Colorado Uniform Trade Secrets Act Under the Colorado Uniform Trade Secrets Act, C.R.S. ?7-74-101, et seq.,
***In Colorado under the Uniform Code – A trade secret is the whole or any portion or phase of any scientific or technical information, design, process, procedure, formula, improvement, confidential business or financial information, listing of names, addresses, or telephone numbers, or other information relating to any business or profession that is confidential in nature – Misappropriation of a trade secret consists only of the improper disclosure or acquisition of a trade secret ? though I have mentioned Colorado, please note this law is federal.. I utilized Colorado as they took the ???s out of the Federal and allow a better understanding. Also there are many states who have also implemented similar rules as well.. Also note the state you are Calling into or representing which has the Strictest law will be the one that will apply.

A secret is one that a Company has Determined is a secret and that they are Limiting access to what THEY determine as confidential information to a need-to-know basis ? so if one has to lie to get to know it, then that is Confidential information to them.

Non-American researchers who are focusing on US companies should also be cautious to operate within legal and ethical boundaries. In reality, so much information is available through legal means that taking illegal actions really does seem well unnecessary and not a viable Move.
Anyone who is collecting information on American Companies should be aware that there are also other several regulations that can ultimately impact their efforts. One being the Economic Espionage Act, passed in 1996, which defines many areas of economic espionage as a criminal offense. Even if you are working for another American Company.

I apologize for the length of this post, but I wanted to get offer a thorough expalanation.

Karen M
By the way please also check out the following Links which also describe how the Ofccp can also affect our recruiting efforts… This ALSO include recruiters who recruit for companies Who are government contractors.

http://www.pmplawfirm.com/Legal191.html

http://www.morganlewis.com/pubs/Applicant%20Questions%20and%20Answers.pdf

The newer one is to recruiting, the more focus there is on getting around the gatekeeper.

The more seasoned the recruiter, the more focus there is on getting the gatekeeper to give you a key so you can have admission when you need it.

Perhaps we should drop the word (and concept of) ‘around’ and simply focus on ‘Getting the Gatekeeper’. No doubt we would be more effective.

Todd

Thanks for getting involved in this discussion all the way from Russia. Amazing! ERE is connecting recruiters from around the world.

I am only going to offer a few thought because I am sure there are plenty of people here who are far smarter than me on some of the legalities of what you propose. Karen M. – are you reading this? If so, I think your insight would be valuable.

Bottom line Allen, several (if not all) of your suggestions could get you into legal hot water here in the US. Even if they don’t, using tactics like what you recommend certainly won’t make you any friends in the recruiting community and you might have some trouble sleeping at night because of ethical fairies that will haunt you in your dreams.

Lying (we call it rusing here) is really not a good option both legally or ethically. Posing as a customer, famous insurance company or competitor is pretty low level in my book. I know there may be those of you out there who can’t believe you just read that from me but contrary to popular opinion there are lines that even I don’t cross. I will push the envelope and try things 99% of recruiters won’t but lying is not one of them.

Don’t get me wrong, there was a day in my recruiting life when I resorted to those tactics. I am not proud of those days and fortunately have moved beyond them. Great recruiters don’t need to rely on the tactics of rusing and flat out dishonesty.

Can you operate in the ‘gray areas’ and still remain ethical? I think you can. But Allen, going to the dark side as you propose with these methods would not work well here in the USA. They may be fine in Russia but would not work here. I would be curious to hear from you on what laws govern business and/or recruiting in your country.

Thanks again for offering your thoughts. Though I disagree with the tactics you propose I am grateful you took the time to read my article and felt compelled to get involved in the conversation. Thanks!

1. Pretend you are a client of the company. (Identify your self to the GK as an existing client, and make up an adequate ?nature of call?.)
2. Pretend you are a competitor of the company. (nature of call may obviously be confidential)
3. Pretend you are from a famous insurance company, and leave your name and mobile number.
4. and more?

Of course it is not only about what you say, but also about how you say it.

Actually, at the sector where I currently work (big 4 seniors and managers), the biggest problem is precise sourcing. When you have the name – Getting Around the Gatekeeper is rarely a problem, especially when you are equipped with a few tricks.

Any way, I?m interested if those approaches I mentions above might be useful in the US.
And would really appreciate your advises on that matter.

As an executive, I am very thankful of the people who keep things moving for busy executives! That attitude shows in my voice, and in the attention I give the person to whom I am speaking.

I also take control of the time at which I will speak to the boss. I am regretful of not being able to share the nature of my call, but it is not critical so please don’t interrupt his/her meeting. It is important, however, so when, in the gatekeepers opinion would be the best time to reach him/her?

There aren’t many who don’t respond to acknowledgement and appreciation, and they usually pass me through immediately when I call back.

The same applies with your gatekeeper relationships. Again, don’t forget the gatekeeper is anyone with a key. My ‘friends’ in Norway, Puerto Rico, or Singapore can attest to how great of ‘friends’ we are. After they meet you, then they ‘know’ you. After they know you, they can trust you and want to help you. Friends do anything for friends. It’s a true testament to human nature.

Don’t forget, you are on the phone. Let that alter-ego shine. Be the person you have always wanted to be. Better yet, be the person your ‘friend’ wants you to be. Just remember to hold up your end of the friendship.

My sincere apologies. The analogy is brilliant no matter who made it but I always want to give credit where credit is do.

Thanks for calling this to my attention.

mgh

As an author I am sure that you may recognize that it takes much time and effort – and it is nice to know when your effort is recognized.

With that Said, thank you for the Indirect Compliment.

Lewis is so on the money it is almost worth paying for his thoughts. Not that I will pay but he is on it. Sourcing isn’t just about names. It’s about the right names. His apple analogy is great and I personally identify because I often use a similar analogy with recruiters about going after the best candidates not just candidates. Anyone can generate names, it takes a true professional to really SOURCE for success and find people how are great.

Todd hits on one of my favorite themes. It’s The Relationship, Stupid! You build rapport and relationships you get all the names you ever need. Having gatekeepers in your network and having a relationship with them matters. I am reminded of the movie Strange Brew (of of my all time favorites) in which Bob and Doug McKenzie try to get into the brewery and have to get past a nasty little cuss of a gatekeeper. How did they do it? They did needs analysis (in their own sort of demented way), built a relationship and then gave something to the gatekeeper to get the information they needed. In her case it was a jelly donut (’want a donut? it’s a jelly!). Oh if it were only that easy.

The point is best made with an analogy. It’s like a checking account. You can’t withdraw more than what you put in, right? The withdrawal must be equal to or less than the deposit. Using the gatekeeper or candidate scenario you have to give in order to receive. Now you don’t have to give money or gifts or even jelly donuts but you do have to give time, information, advice etc. in order to withdraw.

Oh hell…this is now going to be a blog post because I just can’t stop.

Sourcing is, perhaps, the most critical function of any truly great passive candidate recruiting team. Which is why I am building a sourcing team now at Quicken Loans to support our newly designed passive candidate recruiting team!

I digress….this thread is great and I am very honored that all of you feel compelled to contribute in such a positive and productive way to the dialogue and to comment on my article.

Thanks!

You raise an excellent point. We need to remember the distinction between a sourcing call and a recruiting call.

Some habits die hard – when I first got in the business I ran a full desk – marketing, sourcing, recruiting, interview management, negotiations, etc. From Job Req to paycheck.

That said, sourcers could likely benefit from establishing gatekeeper relationships just in case they need to fish in the same pond again.

Todd

Excellent point! I’ve been following this post closely out of pure interest, b/c nothing gives me instant satisfaction like getting past an excellent gatekeeper.

In my previous position (in another state/market), I had gatekeepers that I was extremely good friends with – and some I never even met! Just developed good relationships over the phone, and before you know it… they’re slipping me names and numbers, and referring me to everyone. I filled many positions through those ‘friends’ of mine.

Brittany Dean

Don’t forget with every gatekeeper there are many passwords that work. Keep in mind that the strongest entrance is not always the best point of attack. Can someone else in the company transfer you to the direct line? Is is possible that a cell phone number can be uncovered by a colleague, direct report, someone in the mailroom, etc. Of course!

Research is planning the attack and executing strategic strikes. Recruiting is full blown sales and your kill. Keep the two seperate and you have a battle plan.

This is time intensive, takes patience, and some genuine skill in communication and perception (meaning your ability to be perceptive).

I have spent years in the same industry, frequently contacting the same companies. In one case in particular, my relationship with the gatekeeper was such that our conversations literally became:

GATEKEEPER: Good morning XYZ.
ME: Good morning Linda (not her real name, protect, yada yada yada). This is Todd Noebel.
GATEKEEPER: Oh, hi Todd. So who do you want to try and steal today?
ME: Linda, I’m crushed. I never steal anyone, I just help them decide to walk out the door.
GATEKEEPER: (cynical laugh) Yeah, sure. Just remember, one of these days you need to help me.
ME: You just let me know when you’re ready.
GATEKEEPER: One of these days. Ok, who is it today?

Granted, that is the exception, and far from the rule. That said, you can establish some rapport. Ask about local weather…or better yet, offer a comment about some local news (avoid politics of course). It also breaks the call pattern. Each time you call, try to gather some nugget about the gatekeeper. How long have they been there, do they like the company, why? Use short discussions, one or two comments or questions. Respect that they are busy…and tell them that you do.

Again, maybe I am old fashioned, but a dialogue works infinitely better then a monologue. No, it does not always work, but when it does…

Todd

I absolutely agree with you about preparing yourself for every call. Your imagination is your greatest asset here ? picture the gatekeeper sitting at her desk, imagine yourself standing in front of her, watchful of her every move, as you say. The direction of the call is eight times out of ten in your head. Not bad odds.

Lewis? advice is dead-on also – for high volume research or sourcing a database of information built up on the companies you go into is invaluable. Some companies seem to turn up on multiple jobs time and time again, so a dossier on a specific company each time you go in builds pretty quickly. I notice Lewis uses that dreaded w word ? work! That?s what it takes, and like he says, it makes all the difference!

I love these discussions – thanks!

I?ll try to draw a picture here ? Let?s say there was mission to find a bushel of apples, and the one who brings back the Sweetest, biggest, and the most wins.

Due to lack of Knowledge Many of us will immediately go for the obvious ? targeting the low hanging fruit which is rarely the sweetest or biggest ? the same fruit that all the competitors will be also going after. Soon the Tree becomes Barren and doesn?t produce anymore. Now what?

But, with more knowledge ? say you were to do some research ? find out where there is a Grove of Apple Orchards; in that orchard who has the best apples and of course the Most in one location.

Of course we don?t call the orchards to find out who has the best (a common mistake in recruiting) ? why not?? Well because of 3 points ?
1 ? the orchard will be slammed by calls of course by all the other competitors calling and they will get scared of being raided, so they are very protective – as they need their product for production for Cider, Apple Sauce or such like –

2 ? If you get someone that is not as savvy in the office they could of course then say they of course have the best apples and come on down ? and now you are met with all your competitors raiding the apples

3- The Orchard has not been doing well, the apples would be better off making cider or the orchard may have been picked dry already.. so when you get there you find that you took a wasted trip. Time that could have been best spent elsewhere.

So what do you do instead? – Well, I would go beyond the obvious – I would try to See the Apples for the Trees – What Do I mean ?
Well I would call instead the Fertilizer Companies (gee the Company is spending money on Fertilizer, that means that the apples are sure to be healthier
The Boxing and Container companies ? they will know which orchard often uses the most at one time.. Hmm lot?s of good business means more production, which means better apples. More than likely
The Apple Juice and Sauce Companies ? Especially the ones who have the Best juice and Best Apple Sauce ? they can direct you to the orchards they buy the apples from.

Not only will they direct you to the Orchards, but quite often they will give you the contacts they work with.. Wow ? Names, names and more names to get past security when you need to go pick those apples. And all from a few calls!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!!

Research Works, I promise ? give it a try – you will find that you will be able to pick better fruit, more fruit and win the competition in less time and less effort.

Happy Harvesting!!!!

I think Maureen raises an interesting point that has not yet been talked about here. That is the role of gender in the recruiter/gatekeeper give and take and, to take it one step further, the role of gender in the recruiter/candidate dance. I don’t know the answer but think there may be something to this. I seem to have an easier time with female gatekeepers than male gatekeepers. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I do believe the exchange Maureen references from my article is all about tone and Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP). If you aren’t familiar with it do a google search on it and you will learn more than you ever needed to know. Here is what Maureen was referencing:

Gatekeeper: Good morning; Barbara Smith’s office.
Recruiter: Good morning; who am I speaking to?
Gatekeeper: This is Jim.
Recruiter: Jim, good morning. This is Michael Homula calling for Barbara.

Interrupting the pattern by asking ‘who am I speaking to?’ has to be done with the proper tone and inflection. If it is ominous and too direct you will get shut out. If it is light and inquisitive – like you genuinely care to know who the person is – you will have a higher degree of success with this technique.

I believe you have to mentally prepare yourself for every call. Imagine the call going well, imagine the GK giving you what you need, imagine yourself anticipating their every move, put yourself in a frame of mind to work with the GK not against them.

Just a few thoughts! Sorry it took me a while to get back into this discussion. That darn work thing!

After reviewing your suggestions, I must admit that I need to improve my calm and confidence when making these types of calls. I have to rid myself of the ‘it’s now or never – don’t blow the chance to get into this firm’ attitude.

(Your guess is correct. Many of the firms I call into are smaller and flat in structure. I recruit sales people for industrial firms and deal with a lot of rep firms and distributors.)

Thanks again.

It’s so rare to see actual practical advice on the forum that I just had to write and thank you on behalf of the youngsters.

I’m with you on the phone number range–the best way around the gatekeeper is exactly that–go around her. In large corporations there are thousands of extensions and hundreds and hundreds of friendly folk willing and ready to tell you all you need with minimal encouragment.Companies, or departments that have policies or a ‘climate of fear’ about talking to recruiters can be the most fruitful–you can get a home number with very few calls.
You can sometimes narrow your phone ranges down by segmenting areas of responsibility of the key executives listed in the annual report or web site.

good hunting

You said, ‘In addition, I have been caught off guard by owners and managers answering the phone. I am now better at anticipating this, but I still struggle with dialogue that works.’

What kind of companies are you usually calling into? That would better help us assess the possibilities. Quick guessing, it sounds like you’re calling into smaller companies – one way to get around this is to stab around/beyond or below the main number – sometimes the pathway to the individual desks of a company’s employees lies right here – a good hint is to look at the main number and the fax – many times the direct dials will lie in between or somewhere around…if the fax is not listed, call and ASK ‘What’s your fax number?’ Usually this gets an answer without too much ado.

You go on to say, ‘When the gatekeeper IS a receptionist, no matter what I say, I often get transferred without knowing who I am contacting or the role the actually play in the firm.’

One way of heading her off at the pass is to quickly say, just when she finishes saying ‘One moment please,’ and is about to transfer you, just as she hits the last word ?please,? ‘May I ask to whom you are transferring me?’ She will usually tell you if you ask politely and then push just a tiny tad further and ASK, ‘And can you tell me, please, what is it she does, is she the department’s Administrative Assistant?’ If she says ‘No, she’s the Manager of the department you’re looking for,’ then, well, all and good. Press on, as if you could care less. ‘Well then, can you tell me, does she have an Administrative Assistant and can you transfer me to her?’ A couple things happened here – you backed down her suspicion level by backing down on the level you?re seeking, AND and you’re beginning to direct her actions – when you come back to her, which you invariably will, you can ask her advice once again, gently prodding her to give you just a tad bit more information…and so it goes. In one-three calls back to the same receptionist you can have a department’s manager, the department’s Administrative Assistant, one, two, three, maybe ALL the department’s members, depending on how patient and helpful she is. It?s all in how you ASK!

The trick is to be the one doing all the ASKing and keeping her following your gentle directions. This is done by keeping her just a little bit off balance, as Michael recommends in his excellent article.