Clearly there is no understanding of how the better TPRs operate and what value they can bring. HR being stupid as so quaintly put, makes matters worse not better for TPRs, whether they are traditional HR recruiters or not.

Thankfully our livelihoods do not depend on the recruiting ineptitude of Companies but rather Companies that recognise a valuable service that cannot be achieved any other way.

Recruiting ineptitude in Companies leads to bad practices which is well in keeping with this article.

You might be interested to read this article’s review by one of the industry’s leading author’s and specialist’s, Nick Corcodilos.

I was pleased to see that some of us are not alone in recognising what these ‘best’ practices really mean and the wider audience, including job hunters, will now get a chance to comment.

I hope Nick will share the feedback and response with us.

http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/newsletter/OE20050823.htm

I often ask these questions of the companies who ask me to come and speak to their recruiting teams or when I speak to C level executives.
ME - ‘Why do you use TPR’s?’
ANSWER - ‘because they have the time to focus on my position and focus only on recruiting.’
ME - ‘how many requisitions are your recruiters working on?’
ANSWER - I hear varying answers but generally ‘over 25.’
ME - ‘how many reqs is that TPR you hired working on?’
ANSWER - ‘I don’t know, maybe 8-12′
ME - ‘then why are you so surprised that the TPR is so much more effective and efficient than your in house recruiting team? And why do you keep complaining when your recruiters aren’t filling jobs fast enough or presenting enough qualified talent when you bog them down with 25 or more requisitions while asking them to be at the meeting to schedule a meeting to meet about a meeting on compliance and process?’

TPR has a vested interest in keeping HR stupid when it comes to recruiting. Their livelihood depends on it. As long as HR is more focused on process, compliance, meetings and administrivia the more opportunity there is for TPR’s to make money off of their recruiting ineptitude. That is why so many have such a HUGE problem with what we have done and accomplished here at FirstMerit.

Joe - We do utilize SOME TPR assistance but it is very rare. For example, In 1999 FMER spent $1.2 million in third party search fee’s. In 2004 we spent $206,000 and YTD we have not spent a penny. The model we have implemented here has been a huge savings to the bank but what we are most proud of is the improved performance of the candidates we have identified, recruited and selected compared to the performance of the candidates hired through TPR’s. We measure Recruiting Efficiency not the HR weenie cost per hire here. Our Recruiting Efficiency number is almost 5 basis points better than the national average reported by Staffing.org. Additionally, we can draw a direct link between commercial loan portfolio growth and our recruiting efforts which demonstrates to our shareholders we are driving revenue not taking up space and sucking up money. Again - the advantages of not thinking and acting like traditional HR recruiters.

==> ‘A poaching emphasis. FirstMerit’s talent acquisition strategy is primarily a ‘poaching’ strategy. They focus 100% of their recruiting efforts on currently employed, already trained talent (the so-called passive candidates).’

‘poach’ defn: (1) to trespass on private property, esp. for hunting or fishing to hunt or catch fish illegally.
‘Poach’ sounds like it is an unethical method.

To focus ALL effort on ‘currently employed, already trained talent’ means that they are ignoring totally candidates that, through no fault of their own, are currently unemployed and are eager to be employed.

==>’Send cookies when prospects are rethinking their life. … They gather all kinds of data on candidates, including decision-making criteria, spouse and family names, birthdays, and anniversaries.’

’spouse and family names, birthdays, and anniversaries’ - can you say the words ‘Invasion of privacy’? How about ‘identity theft’?

==> ‘Recruiting on their turf. Some members of the recruiting team wandered through a competitor’s offsite seminar wearing the competitor’s lapel buttons.’

This is trespassing plain and simple and could easily lead to criminal prosecution!

==> ‘Buy your own offer letter. This process requires some finalist candidates to provide three names of top talent at their current firm (with phone numbers and an introduction ‘to us from you’) as a ‘price’ for their offer letter. The introductions must be made before the offer letter is given. The premise is to let everyone know, before they even start at FirstMerit, that everyone is expected to be recruiting 24/7. Even a candidate’s references are considered fair game as hiring targets.’

‘as a ‘price’ for their offer letter’ What a sleazy thing to do! If I were a candidate and was told this, I would think that for that company, AS A WHOLE, there was nothing too sleazy for them to do AT ANY TIME to me or to anyone else during my employment.

==> ‘Raiding during a traumatic event. …The team holds phone-in parties to inundate the firm with calls …’

‘inundate the firm with calls’ - Check with your phone company; I believe this would fall under ‘obscene and harassing calls’ which are illegal. I believe the company receiving the calls would also have legal grounds for a civil lawsuit.

==> ‘Competitive intelligence mixed with recruiting. The director created a recruiting roundtable with the announced intent of learning and sharing. However, the quarterly roundtables had other purposes:’

Nothing like more deception during employment. What do you think the employees invited to the roundtable will think about HR when they realize, and they will, that HR is lying about the purpose of the roundtable?

==>’Job boards versus the phone. … For example, if they are trying to hire commercial lenders, instead of placing an ad for a commercial lender, they take the indirect approach and place one for a lending assistant…’

More lying and misrepresentation - just wait until the word spreads around - and it will!

==>’Service level agreements. … Managers commit to making decisions on candidates within 48 hours.’

For managers that wish to interview the top five or so candidates which will probably take several days - maybe even a week, they now know that they must choose just from those that interview the first two days!

==>’They need to develop a system to proactively identify internal talent that is misaligned and to move it to areas where it will have a higher return.’

Move ‘it’? Now that really makes me want to work there! I’d be just an ‘it’!

==>’As their notoriety grows, they will become a prime poaching target for firms both within and outside of banking.’

‘notoriety’ - defn: the quality or state of being widely known, especially unfavorably. As the above, and the other mentioned methods, become widely known, and possible lawsuits filed, they WILL become notorious!

Summarizing, the reason the actions of HR recruiters offend me as a job seeker is that, if they act like this toward another company that probably has a roomful of lawyers at their beck and call, how will they treat me as an employee during my time with them? I don’t have even one lawyer at my beck and call and they know it.

From outplacement services and other job hunting activities, I have found that the typical time to ‘resolve’ a lawsuit between a former employee and the company they worked for/are suing is about SIX years. If during this time you find similar employment at a similar rate, you will probably not win the lawsuit even though it has merit. If you do win, the award will probably be minimal - even for egregious conduct on the employer’s part.

If the recruiters work for a recruiting company that was engaged by the company potentially hiring me, then it says something about who/what companies they are willing to make deals with. What may I end up getting involved with while an employee?

Look at the trouble Wal-Mart got into because a company they contracted with to clean their stores was hiring illegal aliens. ref: http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-07-07-voa50.cfm ‘In a recently settled lawsuit, Wal-Mart agreed to pay $11 million in fines for hiring illegal workers to clean some of its stores during overnight shifts. Wal-Mart officials insist they were not aware that the contractors they used were hiring undocumented workers.’

I have no problem with honest, above-board recruiting. Over the years I have received many calls at work from recruiters and have willingly talked to them for a few minutes even if I was not interested.

Best Regards,
Keith Severtson
Senior Recruiter
Recruiters of Minnesota

The best reason to have the laws of your home state govern a contract is that you don’t have to travel to another state when there is a hearing or discovery and; you can use your own lawyer, who may not have standing at the bar of another state.
When you consider that recruters need to sue clients for payment far more often than clients sue for refunds, it certainly makes good sense to keep disputes close to home.

On another note Yesterday, I was asked why make such a big deal about all ‘these Laws’ - well I guess I just look at this way - to the person who asked me, you are right, one can keep just going along and not being aware of them, but I guess for me, I look upon that as the Drunk Driver who keeps driving, because he has never hurt anyone, that person feels invincible, and they think they are above reproach.

The only problem is If someone keeps participating in a particular behavior just because they can, or because they don’t care to know, well unfortunately it may only be a matter of time -

You have a great concept, only one question do you use outside resources to recruit talent for the bank.

Regards, Joe Sabrin
eHire
212-736-9544
http://www.ehire.com

At FirstMerit our Talent Acquisition Consultants entire role is to find the highest performing talent in a specific job category and bring them to FirstMerit. The only way to do this effectively is to accurately understand the position success profile, match that with the highest performing talent and offer that talent a better opportunity than the one they are in currently. It is ALL about the relationship!

You do make a generalization - one I happen to agree with however - when you say that corporate recruiters can’t devote themselves solely to recruiting. My team is ONLY recruiters - NO HR! That is the only real way to succeed as a recruiter. Our results prove that having professional recruiters who are passionate about their craft doing ONLY recruiting works. Building and in house search and staffing firm model can work in any organization provided the organization is willing to commit a team of professionals solely to the craft of recruiting the best talent - take away their administrivia and HR work and get them focused on the most important thing any company does - RECRUIT!

Michael

N.J. is Regulated, Ca is Not, and the basic law was 90 days replacement guarantee, if doing money back would be 1/90 of the fee for each day work

Re the information I put out there, I think the laws were made for the individuals who are doing money back guarantees - to protect the consumer. They (the states) do have a time frame, and thus it would be my belief that the timeframe would also be considered for replacement.

So Frank, Since CA, good, I stick to my guns, aggreements now must aggree that CA, where I live and their courts, will have jurisdiction or I NO sign.

You stated ‘I won’t sign any company agreement unless its in MY STATE’.

If my memory serves me right, are you not in California? If so .. isn’t California, along with New York, New Jersey among the most REGULATED states when it comes to recruiting?

The last state I’d want to defend myself in is New Jersey … This is the most liberal leaning state in the nation. I’m actually considering re-domiciling our company http://www.iresinc.com to New Mexico which has NO REGULATIONS whatsoever.

All of our contracts state ‘New Jersey law applies’ but whoopie doo … most judges have no clue what a search firm is anyway.

I’d be interested in knowing where you get your statistics from. I can tell you that I’ve done business all across this country and I’ve never heard of such a thing.

I may have companies who ask (or demand) for lower fees or longer guarantees but I’ve never been told that ‘State Law requires that you…’. Frankly, with the number of companies that I deal with that have offices in almost every state in the country, I can’t see how that could ever apply.

It also doesn’t make sense for a law to be on the books that would have states dictating fees and/or guarantees. It’s too much of a generalization and doesn’t lend itself to the marketplace dictating the supply/demand relationship. Not only would this tie the hands of a recruiter but it would also tie the hands of who a company can do business with. Not to mention inter-state trade opportunities.

I can also tell you that I spoke with a SrVP in a firm in Iowa just two weeks ago and when I told him my %% and guarantee terms, he never flinched. Nor did he say anything about ’state law requires…’ I would imagine that even if such laws exist, they are so full of loop-holes they’re probably unenforceable.

Mitch,
Ah ha, now we’re onto something! :o)
This is the point I was making about generalizations.
I don’t focus on candidates, I focus on relationships.
I have found that in general, when a job order is taken, its like a feeding frenzy, there is no real qualifying, no fact finding, no showing of genuine interest in where the client is and has been on the position. You might as well announce 1.99 jumbo shrimp at your local seafood market.
Thats where I differ.
Information is power.
The more information I have up front, the less time I have to spend and the fewer candidates I have to qualify.
Thats one of the the recruiting differences I feel I make as a TPR.
Also, I really don’t feel that corporate recruiters can devote themselves exclusively to recruiting, I don’t know how they make it through their day with all the HR issues and not to mention the ‘how many times have we had this same meeting this week’?
I may be opening up a can of worms and I hold absolute respect for corporate recruiters, I wouldn’t want that job, but I feel true TPR’s who follow the above ‘business rules and philosophies of recruiting’ are offering a value that is unequaled.

Best Regards,
Keith Severtson
Recruiters of Minnesota

You can buy the book (they have member and Non Member Prices - that has this information; call them like I did and ask them about the PERMANENT PLACEMENT AGENCY LICENSING LAW GUIDE 2004, and how you can obtain a copy of it. (note law not regulation)

Now in regards to my former statement.. People, guess what, I do NOT pull this information out of the Air, what purpose would that serve me.. The information I have stated I definitely TRY to get from reliable sources.. In this case I would like to think ASA is pretty reliable.

Royce, do you think you know every LAW out there, do you think an attorney knows all the laws (why do you think they have to do research)I sure as heck don’t and don’t pretend to and remember I am no Lawyer, I just want to know out of Necessity and out of curiousity;

Laws change every day in every state and federally but when I find out something that I think could eventually effect us I want to allow people to be aware of it.. - So don’t kill the messenger!!!! I also suggest that individuals speak to an attorney that specializes in our industry… They often tend to know if not, they know how to find the information

Do these laws apply to us, I am sure they do, one way or the other, it sure appears to based upon the information, but how and why, well maybe it just comes down to the State’s GENERAL guarantee periods… ONe would have to look up each of the state laws. I realize one thing, I personally will NEVER again consider signing a company aggreement, unless they are in MY state, or that there is an addendum to their aggreement stating that my state laws will apply.

Do I think we should ALL have access to this information, YES I do, but then again, why would it matter even if it was public. Really based upon the responses it is interesting to know that many individuals do not even know that the ASA or NAPS even Exist… Far less even know that certain laws apply to our industry, that there is a Code of Ethics regarding what we do, that is real, and have been in place since 1937 in some states, and probably longer in others, and it seems that Many Don’t even want to know -

We really cannot blame people of lack of common sense, or of ignorance.. This industry is really too easy to enter into, and because of the ease enterance, it is easy to understand why many people are not aware of the Industry Laws, and why they would not even consider looking for or try to be aware of them … That in itself is a scary thing.

Anyways, someone asked me today, why is it we don’t hear about the Law Suits, how come this informtion is not public.. Well, think about this, quite often most companies request a privacy and non disclosure requirement at the close of lawsuits.. and most other times, it may not be the important news to the Newspaper or News Stations, and Lastly, if you had a membership to ASA or NAPS or the Associations that have a legislative representative, then one would be made aware of much of this information… They do send them to you…. The information is out there, if one wants to find it.

The real issue is that for the most part, TPR’s don’t offer great value for money. The business model they work to is flawed. It churns around candidates, more than 90% of whom never get placed anywhere by them and subsequently have a set of charges that is as much driven by this monumental waste of time as it is by the fact that the agency is taking all the risks by working on ’sucess only’.

External Recruiters should be selling things like Candidate Attraction Strategies, Employee Referral Programs and Database Building & Management Services to their clients rather than simply selling candidates.

Maybe it’s the TPR business model that is responsible for much of the unethical behaviour? Maybe if TPR’s stopped being capabale of making a living by being nothing more than good cold callers, the industry may start to make some progress?

There are too many entities to just post which regulate fees, as there are other aspects as well, is it the fee - guarantee period and such like… The following are for Permanent placement -

AS it is there are 23 STATES that Regulate FEES and GUARANTEE Periods for PERMANENT PLACEMENT AGENCIES

23 STATES require that FEE schedules must be submitted to state (not all the same as above)

11 states require fees for counsellors

There are 14 STATES that Regulate and HAVE LAWS (must be licensed in the state as well) FOR THE PERMANENT AGENCY -

There are 10 STATES that IMPOSE Sales TAx for recruiters

There are 20 States that Regulate Applicant Paid

12 STATES require tests for Counsellors and Managers,

By the way what is interesting is that some states were different for each column, so what one state may have said no to thought they needed to put laws elsewhere….

What may be interesting to know is does that state law have presedence when I am recruiting in that state, even if I am in another state… The general case is Yes, the stronger law takes presdense, but in regards to this aspect of recruiting,,,, well it might be interesting to know…. HMMMMM!!!!

Good to see your continued input. I may have missed something here (happens a lot lately), but you stated that placment firms in IA have to return 15% of their fees? To whom?

Actually, my real concern, concerning regulation or industry standards, just what kind of fees are we talking about? Or are fees free from regulation (in the 23 states)? If not, what, if anything, is in these regulations about fees?

Thanks

Jon

Could you please post the list of states that have placement fee regulations?

Thanks!

Best Regards,
Keith Severtson

meaning they regulate the Guarantee time, and percentage - for eg. IA states that the Placement firm must return 15% of annual gross earnings - that is a ONE year Guarantee period… HMMM, most states of the 23 stated 90 days - there were one or two that did 1 Mth, but the general was 90 days, or 12 weeks…

Interesting Stuff..
Karen M.
858-668-3111

Now that just would not be fair, because there are many individuals out there who have less than 8 years experience, but who do have GREAT ethics and do know the industry.. They have taken the time and effort to be trained..

That was why I had the other qualifiying factors, should have probably used an OR,,

anyways.. Many of the individuals on this post I have had the opt. to speak to personally. Some I respect tremendously, and can state that they do share EXTREMELY strong values and ethics in this industry even if they ‘only’ do contingency searches (as I do which by the way also encompass executive and C level).

The type or agency searches (Retained, contingency or corporate) one does does not qualify the person, it is the individual who makes the person. It is their behavior and their actions.

This industry has gone to heck in a handbasket. Oh yes it has. Why!!!! Well - it is due to lack of education, lack of knowledge and lack of ethics. Which comes from the factor that too many people came into this industry too easily with the thought of a quick buck, but w/o realizing or knowing that there were other elements to this job.

I know of people who do not know that the EEOC laws affect us. I know of individuals who believe that just having a phone and a computer is all that one needs to know about this job. Many do not realize that this job has so many legal issues that ethics and legality cross over where one does not know where one starts and where one part ends

The Recruiting Association Test to be certified is a couple of hours long, in California it is about - it encompasses so many laws regarding this industry - as ADA, FMLA, Constitutional Law, Common Law, State and Federal Regulations, INS, Age in Discrimination and a comprehensive overview of other legal issues that face us and our clients every day. There are generally requirements before someone can take the tests.. Naps Requires that During each three year period, new certificate holders will be required to participate in 50 hours of approved continuing education activity or one could lose certification.

Yet anyone and I mean anyone can just enter this industry - without training, certification, knowledge or education.

Yes it is shocking to see that some individuals do actually believe that there are recruiters who do Not believe and live up to the standards and ethics of this industry.. We are not pollyannas, we are not boring, we are just people who believe in our industry and would like to see the High standards return.