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	<title>Comments on: The 17 Dumbest Things In Recruiting</title>
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	<link>http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/</link>
	<description>Recruiting News, Recruiting Events, Recruiting Community, Social Recruiting</description>
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		<title>By: Donald Wirth</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Wirth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/#comment-627</guid>
		<description>For the most part, I belive John Sullivan is on the target.  He brings a large corporate perspective and refreshing &#039;take&#039; on the hiring &#039;process&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the most part, I belive John Sullivan is on the target.  He brings a large corporate perspective and refreshing &#8216;take&#8217; on the hiring &#8216;process&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Carter</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-626</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/#comment-626</guid>
		<description>I think Dr. Sullivan has nailed it. As a TPR with many years of experience, I&#039;ve seen and been involved in many efforts to overlay a technical structure on the recruiting process, most usually to the detriment of the recruiters and their companies.
 
In fact, not too long ago I was a reluctant participant in the over-structuring of recruiting processes in what had been a highly-successful TPR firm. The result was that the real recruiters (sales people) became slaves to the process and many lost sight of the art. But those recruiters who resisted were still successful, presenting a conundrum that management understood but didn&#039;t know how to resolve. The successes of the &#039;artists&#039; provided negative reinforcement for others who were inclined to resist, resulting in an overall failure of the firm to embrace what might have worked. Provided it been instituted in a judicious, properly paced time frame.

In a nut shell, we never heard admiration from candidates for our processes - they accepted positions because they were convinced of the quality of the opportunities and emotionally charged. Our standing joke in the office was about how IT candidates evaluated opportunities by subjecting them to the same rigor they used in their work - intense analysis, qualification, quantification, etc. And when they finally concluded this exercise, they made an emotional decision. Now that might seem off-the-wall, but that&#039;s more truth to that than you might think.

Dr. Sullivan is right on the mark about management and metrics, too. Many times we&#039;ve tried to dazzle our clients with metrics on our efforts in their behalf which was most usually met with a yawn. But they never, ever forget the star that you helped them capture, and will often use that person as the standard for future hires. We&#039;ve had account managers who built years-long relationships with clients based on a single great hire. Great recruiters make this a repeatable process, and that&#039;s an art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Dr. Sullivan has nailed it. As a TPR with many years of experience, I&#8217;ve seen and been involved in many efforts to overlay a technical structure on the recruiting process, most usually to the detriment of the recruiters and their companies.</p>
<p>In fact, not too long ago I was a reluctant participant in the over-structuring of recruiting processes in what had been a highly-successful TPR firm. The result was that the real recruiters (sales people) became slaves to the process and many lost sight of the art. But those recruiters who resisted were still successful, presenting a conundrum that management understood but didn&#8217;t know how to resolve. The successes of the &#8216;artists&#8217; provided negative reinforcement for others who were inclined to resist, resulting in an overall failure of the firm to embrace what might have worked. Provided it been instituted in a judicious, properly paced time frame.</p>
<p>In a nut shell, we never heard admiration from candidates for our processes &#8211; they accepted positions because they were convinced of the quality of the opportunities and emotionally charged. Our standing joke in the office was about how IT candidates evaluated opportunities by subjecting them to the same rigor they used in their work &#8211; intense analysis, qualification, quantification, etc. And when they finally concluded this exercise, they made an emotional decision. Now that might seem off-the-wall, but that&#8217;s more truth to that than you might think.</p>
<p>Dr. Sullivan is right on the mark about management and metrics, too. Many times we&#8217;ve tried to dazzle our clients with metrics on our efforts in their behalf which was most usually met with a yawn. But they never, ever forget the star that you helped them capture, and will often use that person as the standard for future hires. We&#8217;ve had account managers who built years-long relationships with clients based on a single great hire. Great recruiters make this a repeatable process, and that&#8217;s an art.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/#comment-625</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think we&#039;re disagreeing. Possibly a chicken and egg thing and priorities but all things must be done. I am fine with ROI for recruiting it shows we are a strategic partner not a cost center. 
As to hiring managers we need to give them the metrics they need. But we need to give them training in our expertise of interviewing and hiring.

Happy Holidays</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re disagreeing. Possibly a chicken and egg thing and priorities but all things must be done. I am fine with ROI for recruiting it shows we are a strategic partner not a cost center.<br />
As to hiring managers we need to give them the metrics they need. But we need to give them training in our expertise of interviewing and hiring.</p>
<p>Happy Holidays</p>
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		<title>By: Tracey Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-624</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracey Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/#comment-624</guid>
		<description>Rich, 

I honor what you say about the value of relationships and that recruiting is an art.  In fact we have integrated SPOKE into our recruiting organization to maximize our networking capabilities. Yet at a macro level what I am trying to communicate is, if the technology and process is broken then the people can&#039;t do what they were hired to to, that is recruit...  What happens is the &#039;art of recruiting&#039; or those critical skills a recruiter was hired for, begin to atrophy.


Rich, this is a systemic problem - that cannot be fixed ONLY with better recruiting skills. WE must address things more holistically and look at the combination of people, process and technology.  

I can speak to this first hand.  I pride myself on being a strong recruiting professional. I recently was a staffing manager within an org. where the technology and process was broken. No matter how strong my skills were, they got masked with the pivot tables and excel reports needed to defend &#039;why&#039; certain things were not happening.   Whereas, here within the EDS Outsourcing practice, I own technology. We have a business intelligence application that integrates with all of our HR systems. We can begin to look at an organization and truely understand what needs to be pipelined, what needs to be fixed and how best to source / recruit for a hard to fill position. The recruiters that we support can leverage this data real time through a recruiter dashboard, and give hiring managers a report that cannot be argued with. It fosters better relationships, trust and a better quality of hire. 

While Recruiters must have excellent skills, these skills die if the organization does not have the infrastructure to support them in their jobs. We need an integrated technology infrastructure to get recruiters out of the job as high paid administrators and back into a true recruiting role. Then we can begin to hone in on networking, cold calling, internet mining, etc.

Tracey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, </p>
<p>I honor what you say about the value of relationships and that recruiting is an art.  In fact we have integrated SPOKE into our recruiting organization to maximize our networking capabilities. Yet at a macro level what I am trying to communicate is, if the technology and process is broken then the people can&#8217;t do what they were hired to to, that is recruit&#8230;  What happens is the &#8216;art of recruiting&#8217; or those critical skills a recruiter was hired for, begin to atrophy.</p>
<p>Rich, this is a systemic problem &#8211; that cannot be fixed ONLY with better recruiting skills. WE must address things more holistically and look at the combination of people, process and technology.  </p>
<p>I can speak to this first hand.  I pride myself on being a strong recruiting professional. I recently was a staffing manager within an org. where the technology and process was broken. No matter how strong my skills were, they got masked with the pivot tables and excel reports needed to defend &#8216;why&#8217; certain things were not happening.   Whereas, here within the EDS Outsourcing practice, I own technology. We have a business intelligence application that integrates with all of our HR systems. We can begin to look at an organization and truely understand what needs to be pipelined, what needs to be fixed and how best to source / recruit for a hard to fill position. The recruiters that we support can leverage this data real time through a recruiter dashboard, and give hiring managers a report that cannot be argued with. It fosters better relationships, trust and a better quality of hire. </p>
<p>While Recruiters must have excellent skills, these skills die if the organization does not have the infrastructure to support them in their jobs. We need an integrated technology infrastructure to get recruiters out of the job as high paid administrators and back into a true recruiting role. Then we can begin to hone in on networking, cold calling, internet mining, etc.</p>
<p>Tracey</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Price</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-622</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/#comment-622</guid>
		<description>Rich, while I won&#039;t quibble with the validity of your argument, Tracey is 100% correct.  We are continually clobbered by our hiring managers and senior management because we don&#039;t speak their language -- metrics and detailed analytics.  The lack of an integrated talent management system prevents many of us from having a true seat at the table.  We are fighting an uphill battle armed with gossamer armor composed of qualitative assessments and judgements rather than the steel armor we need, composed of facts and figures that will truly sway the minds, opinions, and behaviors of senior management.  It is incredibly frustrating to spend hours pouring over Excel spreadsheets created by different business units and groups and try to make sense of what is really going on, because no one captures information or reports it in the same way or manner despite on-going efforts to standarize data collection.  All of this is done in hindsight rather than analyzing what is currently happening in an organization.  This continuous reactive posture potrays staffing and recruitng as administrative support rather the business champions we can be.

Technology is not the only step in the transformation process, but it is an imperative fundamental upon which all other true progress will be built.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, while I won&#8217;t quibble with the validity of your argument, Tracey is 100% correct.  We are continually clobbered by our hiring managers and senior management because we don&#8217;t speak their language &#8212; metrics and detailed analytics.  The lack of an integrated talent management system prevents many of us from having a true seat at the table.  We are fighting an uphill battle armed with gossamer armor composed of qualitative assessments and judgements rather than the steel armor we need, composed of facts and figures that will truly sway the minds, opinions, and behaviors of senior management.  It is incredibly frustrating to spend hours pouring over Excel spreadsheets created by different business units and groups and try to make sense of what is really going on, because no one captures information or reports it in the same way or manner despite on-going efforts to standarize data collection.  All of this is done in hindsight rather than analyzing what is currently happening in an organization.  This continuous reactive posture potrays staffing and recruitng as administrative support rather the business champions we can be.</p>
<p>Technology is not the only step in the transformation process, but it is an imperative fundamental upon which all other true progress will be built.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-621</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/#comment-621</guid>
		<description>Tracey,
With all due respect it is recruiters and technology is a tool not the answer. It remains an art not a science. Like all skills some people have it and some don&#039;t. But you can hone your talent.
Its about niches and relationships, not transactions. But no one can sell you that so they  sell bells and whistles. Training is good if done by those who&#039;ve manned a desk.
The biggest gaps are training of hiring managers and looking toward retention by growing your own people.
 
In an ideal world the vast majority of hires should be entry level through referrals.
With the occassional fresh blood from another set of best practices. ATS while helpful is relied on to mask the lack of true people skills.

Rich Goldberg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracey,<br />
With all due respect it is recruiters and technology is a tool not the answer. It remains an art not a science. Like all skills some people have it and some don&#8217;t. But you can hone your talent.<br />
Its about niches and relationships, not transactions. But no one can sell you that so they  sell bells and whistles. Training is good if done by those who&#8217;ve manned a desk.<br />
The biggest gaps are training of hiring managers and looking toward retention by growing your own people.</p>
<p>In an ideal world the vast majority of hires should be entry level through referrals.<br />
With the occassional fresh blood from another set of best practices. ATS while helpful is relied on to mask the lack of true people skills.</p>
<p>Rich Goldberg</p>
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		<title>By: Tracey Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/comment-page-1/#comment-619</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracey Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ere.net/2004/12/20/the-17-dumbest-things-in-recruiting/#comment-619</guid>
		<description>Dear John, 

While I chuckled at the content of your article -it also frustrated me.  For years as leaders we have blamed it on the recruiter and your article continues that cycle. 

As recruiting leaders we need to take a step back and look at the Staffing Function as an integrated component within Talent Management. 
At the enterprise level, we need to re-explore the value of People, Process and Technology.  

What is missing today is:
1. Integrated HR technology framework
2. True business analytics, that allows us to pull data simutaneously from multiple systems to really get true understanding of attrition, quality talent, management capabilities, diversity(real time).  Instead we have lots of excel spread sheets, with bad, disparate data that is a min. of 1 month old.
3. An integrated solution that manages the talent process from prospect through employee. An ATS only manages a piece of the process. Today recruiters are still using multiple systems to manage the rest.  It is called multi-tasking at its best.
4. Better process.  Get recruiters out of the volume or administrative business and integrate technology solutions that automate the volume aspects of recruiting. Let recruiters focus on positions that have impact in the boardroom. 
5.  People:  Change Management:  Technology and leveraging technology requires a change in skill sets. Once the technology infrastructure is put in place to support, hiring, retention, better workforce analytics, then you can pick on the recruiting profession. 

We as a profession have quite a bit of work in front of us.  The recruitment process outsourcing association that is being formed to address these issues. HR Outsourcing firms are addressing this from an entire HR Platform and according to the Human Resources Institute Trend Watcher, Outsourcing is seen as the super highway to achieving these challenges listed above. 
Instead of talking about how bad recruiters are, we need to talk about re-tooling our people, process and technologies.

Tracey Friend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear John, </p>
<p>While I chuckled at the content of your article -it also frustrated me.  For years as leaders we have blamed it on the recruiter and your article continues that cycle. </p>
<p>As recruiting leaders we need to take a step back and look at the Staffing Function as an integrated component within Talent Management.<br />
At the enterprise level, we need to re-explore the value of People, Process and Technology.  </p>
<p>What is missing today is:<br />
1. Integrated HR technology framework<br />
2. True business analytics, that allows us to pull data simutaneously from multiple systems to really get true understanding of attrition, quality talent, management capabilities, diversity(real time).  Instead we have lots of excel spread sheets, with bad, disparate data that is a min. of 1 month old.<br />
3. An integrated solution that manages the talent process from prospect through employee. An ATS only manages a piece of the process. Today recruiters are still using multiple systems to manage the rest.  It is called multi-tasking at its best.<br />
4. Better process.  Get recruiters out of the volume or administrative business and integrate technology solutions that automate the volume aspects of recruiting. Let recruiters focus on positions that have impact in the boardroom.<br />
5.  People:  Change Management:  Technology and leveraging technology requires a change in skill sets. Once the technology infrastructure is put in place to support, hiring, retention, better workforce analytics, then you can pick on the recruiting profession. </p>
<p>We as a profession have quite a bit of work in front of us.  The recruitment process outsourcing association that is being formed to address these issues. HR Outsourcing firms are addressing this from an entire HR Platform and according to the Human Resources Institute Trend Watcher, Outsourcing is seen as the super highway to achieving these challenges listed above.<br />
Instead of talking about how bad recruiters are, we need to talk about re-tooling our people, process and technologies.</p>
<p>Tracey Friend</p>
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